Flow chart for eligible classes

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Ancient Geek
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by Ancient Geek » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:15 pm

Surely a Great Dane is "Paul Elvestrom" "Sandy Toksvig" or "Anders Lassen" and a Jasck Russell as long as is the late "Chalkie" is a good dog!
Simples.

jonathan
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by jonathan » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:40 pm

Jack Russell - a wicket keeper who was is an artist and took his own supply of baked beans and weetabix onoverseas tours. Wore a tatty old sun hat if I remeber correctly. Off topic now.

Garry R

Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by Garry R » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:17 am

I have to agree with Michael Briggs. Kids have too much time. The oft trotted out excuses for vandalism, hanging around street corners etc are based on the falsehood that "there's nuffink to do round here". I can't remember a time where there is so MUCH to do for youngsters laid on a plate for them by parents who will indulge them completely. But it's not "cool" for kids to do things with parents and many parents are happy to chuck the kid a £20 note and tell them to go out and enjoy themselves - out of sight out of mind. Now I'm less grumpy too - thanks Michael.

This was a piece I penned long before I became a grumpy old man......... irrittated by the constant use of the word cool used by a student in my lab - it drove me round the bend and resulted in this.

REALLY COOL!

Cool's what you say if you've nothing to say,
Cool's what you say fifty times every day,
Cool's wearing trainers - but never to train,
Cool's never wearing a coat in the rain,
Cool's going clubbing, loud music and such,
Cool's watching rubbish on TV too much,
Cool's spending most of the weekends in bed,
Cool's not excited by "Lady in Red",
Cool's spending fortunes on clothing and shoes,
Cool's getting drunk on far too much booze,
Cool's drinking Bud - but not from a glass,
Cool's got few manners but tries to act class,
Cool's for the young, the shallow, the fool,
If you've nothing to say - then just say "It's cool".

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Ancient Geek
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by Ancient Geek » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:30 am

Hey Garry that's really cool!

A thought Garry for poet Laureat some of his stuff is very good, I would say cool but I know it would upset him!
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davidh
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by davidh » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:37 am

Better still,
'Cool brother' - now how kool is that???

D
David H

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neil
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by neil » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:45 am

As this thread has gone way off topic it's been moved into the banter section. (Cue sarcastic comments about naughty stools and slapped thighs)

Although I don't agree with the flow chart approach the discussion could have been interesting.

Personally I find the fact that the thread descended into a diatribe about the 'younger generation' rather disappointing. Perhaps I had an idea that the CVRDA should try and encourage participation rather than alienate anyone under the age of 30.

For those of you that have missed it the Forum Etiquette is still at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1804
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by davidh » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:18 am

Neil,

that's a shame as the suggestion for the flow chart, be it on line or just drawn out on paper, for was a very real attempt from me to come up with a workable solution.

I agree with what you say about the generation 'gap' BUT this is just a part of the demographic time bomb that I see ticking away under the seat of dinghy sailing.

Not only are the younger sailors less than interested in spending hours vanishing, painting and 'fitting out', nor are they that keen to become the next layer of structure within dinghy clubs. Do you see that many youngsters painting the ladies loos in the dark cold months between Christmas and the start of the season?

Currently, dinghy sailing, across the UK, is failing to attract young people, an issue that is of considerable concern to the RYA. If it is a struggle to get someone engaged in a bright, colourful, fun, 'just add water' activity, then getting them into classics is going to be an even harder task.

But hang on a mo - should we be really be worrying about this. If younger sailors want to sail, they can skim away in their foiling moths, blast off in their multi wire skiff copies or party away at events organised by the boat builder - most of which are activities that through choice, anno domini or just plain old lack of mobility are beyond us. Maybe there is enough in this world done for youngsters - why not celebrate the fact that we don't do these things, rather than try to compromise what we do just to try to attract some youf into the association!

Don't worry, I do not need to be told, am heading off to the naughty step under my own steam!

D
David H

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Ancient Geek
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by Ancient Geek » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:29 am

If I may defend some of the young, everytime I got frustrated by my son which was frequently I used to remind myself of this poem by AP Herbert written in the aftermath of The Battle of Brittain.

Poetry
by
Sir Alan Herbert CH
Written in 1940 during our time of extreme peril.

These Are the Boys

These are the boys of whom we said
"They are not what their fathers were;
They have no heart, And little head;
They slouch, and do not cut their hair."

Yet these like falcons live and die;
These every night have new renown;
And while we heave a single sigh
They shoot a brace of bombers down.

To Think…..

To think that children used to cry
"Oh look, a lovely aeroplane!"
That man was proud that man could fly!
Will anyone be proud again?

Yes, we'll be proud that British boys
Were masters too, of that machine,
And gave the stars a nobler noise,
And swept the filthy heavens clean.
Simples.

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neil
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by neil » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:45 am

As i said, personally I don't agree with the flowchart approach, but it's worthwhile discussing the issues as it does raise other factors.

Having spent years developing Expert Systems, Fuzzy Logic and Neural Networks approaches to problem solving I'm not a fan of any rule based solution - unless you have lot's of time and data you'll end up with a very generic system that will never meet the solution that can be provided by people with experience/expertise and lots of prior knowledge.

It's a judgement call on what fits a particular solution. Unlike rules such as IORMkIIIA wihich is a simple input/output relationship that allows caressing of data to find an ideal (but expensive) solution the CVRDAness (I know, it's a horrible word) of a boat has many variables that will be difficult to agree upon.

Some of these are
  • Rareness (not in the eBay context)
  • Authenticity
  • Impact (either of the design or specific boat)
  • Historical 'worth'
  • Aesthetical appeal (what defines a 1970s dog of a design?)
I'm sure there are plenty of others

Perhaps it's a collective opinion that defines the CVRDAness of a boat.

Perhaps we are thinking too hard about this and are over complicating the situation.

I like the comment by Chris on the Constitution thread
The more I think about a change to the constitution the more I think It was very well thought out at the begining. Perhaps all we need to add is something like...

" the committee has the power to make decisions on eligabilty, classes and handicaps"
Rather than create a complex solution just take the pragmatic route based on the experience in the membership
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Pat
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by Pat » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:17 pm

All this worry about the next generation means I have to ask: How many of us were sailors through our late teens and twenties?
Neither of us were. I sailed on the boating lake at Brightlingsea as a 10 year old then not again until my late thirties and Sandy only came to sailing from polo about 12 years ago (and the sailor who introduced him to it has taken up polo!)

There are always many newcomers to the sport who are over 30 but the RYAs energies are focussed on the youngsters. Maybe they should amend their target marketing and aim at the more financially stable, higher disposable income, mature generation?

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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by Ancient Geek » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:43 pm

Sadly there is no point in even trying to convert the RYA to reasonableness it goes its own way, really only interested in the Olympics or anything else that gets it on the telly, no matter what dressing is put on it.

For myself I have sailed since I was 3 and by the time I was 13 it was clear it was the only sport I had any talent for, even my school allowed me not to play ball games and sail instead!
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by davidh » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:35 pm

Neil,

I will bow to your knowledge of 'fuzzy logic' ( I get that most mornings between waking and first cup of tea) but IS.... well.... some of the work I did in a past life looked at this from the other end of the telescope (the human interaction with Intelligent Systems - with a side consideration of emergent properties!).

Whilst I agree with the rigidity of any rule based system, it is always possible to have an alternative solution. If the outputs from the chart were the 'wings' - however these were defined, rather than having the final output (when someone tries to register a modern but no longer supported SMOD - the Laser EPS for example) a "you've got to be joking" response, there could be a hot link over to a mailbox that the CVRDA 'technical committee' - for want of a better term -could consider on merits.

This may seem like the sledehammer to crack the walnut today (just so that AG can have the walnut shells for paint stripping) but moving forward, could make life easier!

It will not solve every problem but it might just shift some of the issues back to the person asking the question. Amen to that!!

D
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Re: Flow chart for eligible classes

Post by Rupert » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:00 pm

Most of the old guys painting sailing club loos were off doing pretty much what the "youth of today" are doing when they were the "youth of their day", while the old guys worried about who would take on the legacy. This has been happening for as long as there have been humans - or at least since humans invented Cider and bus shelters.

As for flow charts and the like, I see their use as a method of helping people without the detailed background knowledge some have on here work out where their pride and joy (or ebay scrapper) fits into the scheme of things. It should always have human checks and balances, though.
Rupert

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