And the last shall be first

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Rupert
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Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: And the last shall be first

Post by Rupert » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:11 am

Personal handicaping can work in a fleet of one class of boat, but add it in on top of already dodgy and much altered handicaps? The results would become absolutely random rubbish.

Thames this weekend was very hard fought - boats giving each other bare mm of room to tack off the shore, fighting for every inch of room at the narrow island part. There were 1/2 a dozen boats out there at least who saw it as an event to win, and had the sailing skills to do so. Doesn't mean we weren't enjoying it. In fact, most wouldn't have enjoyed it as much without the competition. While there must be moves made to make sure that the not so competitive sailors also enjoy themselves (I've yet to see evidence that they don't - in fact, they seem to have a far better time than I do!)) it doesn't have to be at the expense of those who want to sail as fast as they can. It is a personal test, really, and without that, it becomes very tedious.

The first event wasn't a cruise, thats for sure - plenty of competition for those who wanted it, so I'm not sure why people think it has changed. And just thinking about the Whitefriars event, when we had 3 boats finishing within 10 seconds of each other in one race. 2 of those boats were a 1946 Merlin and a mid 80's Tonic, yet all the pictures have us locked together round the course. And however relaxed they may look on the shore, Chris and Lois were trying just as hard as I was, and were just as keen to win.

So, if it is as John A says, and the prize givings don't reflect the nature of the event, change the prize givings, but don't turn it into a 1970's "Competition is bad" comprehensive school, please. These boats were designed to be raced, and when people race, they get competitive.
Rupert

alan williams
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Location: Devon

Re: And the last shall be first

Post by alan williams » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:57 am

Hi
Lets not go to personal handicaps as they are really unfair, skill is a learnt factor and shoud not be cast asided because an unskilled person can't win.The adjusted boat handicaps work well. Have a tail end Charlie trophy like the Mirrors but make it a worthy one. At one time in the Mirrors, my sister tells of a 70's National's in Plymouth. Where the last place was as keenly contested as those at the top. The reason being that the trophy and prize was as good as that given to the National Champ.The provisors was that every race had to be completed no DNC or DNF.
Cheers Al Finn 424 etc.
Last edited by alan williams on Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ed
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Re: And the last shall be first

Post by Ed » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:36 am

I don't think anyone suggested 'personal' handicaps.....quite the opposite.

And no-one suggested that we shouldn't race or award the winners...

we were simply considering how we could make the racing more rewarding at the back of the fleet and for those who were not so bothered about where they come in the 'pecking order'.
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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jpa_wfsc
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Location: Oxford (Work) Coteswold Water Park (Sailing)

Re: And the last shall be first

Post by jpa_wfsc » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:40 pm

No - not personal handicaps - that was not my idea at all. But the concept of adjusting a boats' handicap to take account of the crew's ability was a little tongue in cheek - sorry about that.

cvrda already adjust boat handicaps to give a reasonably fair chance at a race win. I certainly like the idea of boat rather then personal entry so that boat swapping is encouraged.

Maybe a collectible mommento so that everyboat leaves a cvrda event with not just memories, but something to hang them on (e.g. pennants, burgees, or something like). Of course there is a cost and an extra pound or two for an entry might be OK. Certainly for me its not the cost of entering an event that is keeping me away this year - its the pressure of work and the rest of life. Fantastic if that can be sponsored!
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'

British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'

!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.

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Ed
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Re: And the last shall be first

Post by Ed » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:28 pm

We used to do flags for all entrants.


This was OK when we made them ourselves, but it ended up a mammoth job and all attempts to find someone else who could make them at a reasonable cost have been unfruitful.

We have been quoted at over £5.00 each for small flags :-(

If we were paying that kind of money, I have wondered whether we could just buy burgees ready made and then screen-print a design onto that.

We have been looking at stickers...

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Michael Brigg
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: And the last shall be first

Post by Michael Brigg » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:30 pm

"The Moderators Mug."

A special award from Roger, to DavidH to assist in the emptying of his Smoker.

And/Or Alternatively...

"The Moderators Mugs."

A framed picture of the forum team ( :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ) to be given for the boat that required the largest :shock: (+ Or -) adjustment to their handicap.
Michael Brigg

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