A question

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Ancient Geek
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A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:43 pm

So the Flying Fifteen is in (designed 1948 ish), what about the Star 100 years young next year, and other venerable keelboat designs?
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Re: A question

Post by Pat » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:19 pm

What's in at any event is totally up to the host club and usually their landlord's rules. Clywedog is a particular hive of fifteens (what's the collective noun? ) and Roadford can accommodate them but elsewhere the leases rule them out. If we had an event at a suitable venue and the host club sailed Stars or Dragons, they would be in.
The Brightlingsea One Designs were invited when we were there, but it sadly clashed with something else. They've a new boat at the dinghy show this year too and local lad Reg White with his Olympic gold medal (Tornado 1976) to promote it.

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jon711
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Re: A question

Post by jon711 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:05 pm

While, I am sure we can accept any boat, we do need a definition of a dinghy.

The CVRDA have now taken the Star start time, for Oulton Week.

Please do not get me wrong, I would love to see Stars, Dragons, Borads One Designs, Waveny One Designs, Yare and Bure One Designs... Do I need to continue.... racing at Oulton Week, however what are the guidelines - we had a Loch Long turn up for the last two years - are they eligible as a classic dinghy??

Is a classic Dragon, a classic dinghy?? And if not why not??

We could have a problem, if we allow classic dayboats in, even Oulton can not handle a 150 boat start!!!

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Re: A question

Post by Rupert » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:14 pm

Hmmm, the Star kind of relies on hiking to keep the thing the right way up, despite the keel, as does the FF. It has no cabin. I would put the Star in, certainly, but the Dragon might be a step too far for me - kind of the wrong scale, and more akin to the sq metre yachts.
Mainly, though, it is down to whether a boat "feels" right to be included. And that can only depend upon the history of a class, of a venue and all the rest. Oulton week will have a different feel to our other events, so use your judgement!
We have never been in the position of having to exclude boats due to numbers. If you can manage that, I'd take my hat off to your organizing skills.
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Re: A question

Post by Nigel » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:13 am

As a general principle, I favour inclusivity over exclusivity. Practicalities though will also play a big part as launching and recovering even a ff would be a challenge at some venues.

I would also steer away from trying to define what is a dinghy. In my view, if it floats and has a reasonable chance of "self-sufficiency" (crew & a few willing helpers) launching & recovering that is close enough (not withstanding age related criteria).

BTW, I did notice an odd note in Burrett that claimed an International Canoe was not a dinghy because it does not have a transom - I do not think anyone would want to exclude those on such an arbitrary basis.

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Re: A question

Post by Nessa » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:39 am

Some clubs do have criteria in their bye laws. I know at Hunts we don't allow boats faster than 950 and over a certain length, might be 17', which would prohibit boats such as Stars, FDs etc.

I know the reason why I couldn't consider the IC was that it's 'too fast' for Hunts.
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Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:07 am

Since some are taking my tongue in cheek question a bit seriously then:
Clearly Rupert hasn't sailed a Dragon recently, hiking is what you do and with no toe straps (verbotten.) using pump line handles etc. It makes a huge difference.
The fastest and prettiest Dragons today are those built in the 1950's & 60's in wood (Cuban Mahogany and Rock Elm.) by "Peddersen & Tuesen" given the walnut shells treatment, epoxied, redecked, bulkheads fitted re rigged, modern rudder in GRP etc. Several reasons the templates changed and once a Dragon -even if rebuilt- always a Dragon the Keels were a bit different too.
The reason I said Star is the class is 100 next year there is a fleet at Wroxham and nominally at Lowestoft, Stars have in the past appeared at Oulton Week in small numbers, and this was the this a way to mix it with the vintage dinghies without breaking my vow of centreboard abstinance! However a star throws a mighty big wind shadow.
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Re: A question

Post by Rupert » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:21 am

Whether tongue in cheek or vaguely serious, it is an interesting question. Most yachts tend to put lard on the rail, so the Dragon isn't unique in that. Still don't think it is related to dinghies!
The IC is a case of convergant evolution, and isn't a dinghy...but is one of the truely classic cvrda boats. As would the Star be, if they fitted on any of our sailing waters, or if someone in the cvrda sailed one. I'm all for AG borrowing one for Oulton, so long as we get plenty of pictures!
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Re: A question

Post by Brookesy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:37 am

I realise this question was tongue in cheek, but to my mind, if the venue will allow it and it meets the CVRDA criteria it could be an invited class, especially as it is an olympic or ex olympic class. If it has a keel it is pretty clear it is not a dinghy, but so what, if our handicappers think it meets the above guidelines.
I personnaly would dearly love to see Stars sailing, let alone get into one, but seriously do we really think other than at Oulton, that Stars and Dragons would be travelling to CVRDA events, or is this another continuation of keeping the Oulton event active on the forum....
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Re: A question

Post by roger » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:50 am

Stars and Dragons at Clwedog!!!! now that would be a sight. If they could get down the hill.
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Re: A question

Post by chris » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:12 am

Even more impressive if they got back up the hill at the end of the weekend, eh Roger?
On the main point though, our constitution does and always has allowed for some leaway on definitions (and handicaps) I think the exact phrase is " within the spirit of the CVRDA". But read the constitution yourselves to check that. Flexibility rather than rigidity was the whole point. We've always included cats for example.
Indeed individual clubs have the last say as mentioned above (eg Shearwater's max length is 16ft). The are bound to be some grey areas though.
Last edited by chris on Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:15 am

No reasonable hill is a problem as long as you can tow it by car, but lack of a crane would be! Stars and FF's can just about be trailer launched but Dragons need a 2.5 ton SWL crane and a good driver.
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Re: A question

Post by DavidC » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:31 pm

The Dragon must be a dinghy because they allow it to be exhibited at the RYA DINGHY Show :D :D :D :D

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Re: A question

Post by roger » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:12 pm

Ancient Geek wrote:No reasonable hill is a problem as long as you can tow it by car, but lack of a crane would be! Stars and FF's can just about be trailer launched but Dragons need a 2.5 ton SWL crane and a good driver.
but is Clwedogs hill reasonable? My old van with two boats up didnt think so. :oops:
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Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:24 pm

The clue may be in "old" and van having followed a few vans up reasonable hills in Hampshire and Surrey recently and found them struggling to a point of collapse, I sympathise.
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