A question

Please use this area for off topic conversations and banter
User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:17 am

And a very noble craft too, but not havingeven auxilliary sail in Mr Masefields time would it be CVRDA eligble. The Greeks and British Oarsmen built a Trireme a few years back ot was OARSOME!
Simples.

chris
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: A question

Post by chris » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:48 am

There are a couple of Viking boats (replicas presumably ) on the Apex auction, see other thread.

alan williams
Posts: 1649
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:44 pm
Location: Devon

Re: A question

Post by alan williams » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:18 am

Hi
I would have loved to have had a Viking long boat back in the Hornet fleet days. What fear we could have spread among the the very snobby southern yacht clubs. Could you imagine the girls turning up with the cars and trailers with the boats. Whilst a long boat appeared from around the point with shields hung on the side, crewed by the Hornet fleet. Even the most hardend Commodore would be quaking in their boots.
Cheers Eric the Viking
Last edited by alan williams on Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Garry R

Re: A question

Post by Garry R » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:00 am

I am reminded of the cartoon showing a couple of exhausted looking Vikings walking up the beach carrying a spade and a fork in a wheelbarrow with one saying to the other "I thought they said we're here for rake and tillage".

There is a nice Larsen cartoon of the galley ship with the huge galley rowers on board with the little wimp at the stern with his hand up saying to the galleymaster with the cat o' nine tails "Cooeee! I think I'm getting a blister!"

User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:21 am

If I may spring to the Defence of the Vikings, in fact cultured curious explorers with a good home lide kind to womwn and children, as a visit to the Viking museums in Oslo and Roskilde in Denmark show, good boat builders too. Alan I think Vikings shouted Holga Danske or Uphellyah or similar, I didn't think they quacked!
Simples.

Michael Brigg
Posts: 1662
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: A question

Post by Michael Brigg » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:38 am

I always rather enjoyed Kirk Douglas as the ruthless brother in "The Vikings"

<ADMIN>

Sorry, in my post below, I state that this is 'most probably against the law', which is putting into writing that I admit that it is....which puts us pretty much open to getting sued as I had already admitted that I realised the forum was breaking the law....so....I thought it best to remove it.

Mike, could you do me a favour and replace the image with a link to it!

Thanks <Ed-Admin>


Sorry Ed I take your point. Done!

http://www.elseptimoarte.net/imagenes/noticias/2487.jpg
A link to the film poster in case you can't remember :)

There is a memorable scene which I imagine would be dificult to re-enact even in the wildest days of the hornet fleet where he is hurling an axe at his reputedly unfaithful, (or perhaps unwilling) woman, a fiesty blonde Helga, speadeagled on an upturned trestle table and tied down by her long plaits.

In the tradition of "Shaving the head" of an unfaithful (or unwilling) woman, he cuts her plaits off by Hurling his axe in the manner of a circus act, with his Good eye covered by a patch. :twisted: :roll:
Last edited by Michael Brigg on Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael Brigg

User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:49 am

I do not think that the Hornets can claim all the bad behaviour long before my time in the Merlin Fleet there was the famous storming of the Imperial Hotel Torquay, The Alderney Incident, and then The destruction of the Wind Shelter a Bognor Regis, The Fish and Chip shop in Lowestoft and again in Whitstable, and I seem to recall quite a lot of really not just bad but very stupid behaviour at Pwhelli in 1970!
A good Viking call might be:
Endlight hen til Himerigsmunefeld, og, kan ravid eazels uriner af machen af din tre kopper mor.
But doesn't seem to match "The vikings are coming" from Michaels film.
Simples.

alan williams
Posts: 1649
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:44 pm
Location: Devon

Re: A question

Post by alan williams » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:53 pm

Yes one should quake in ones boots rather than quacking.
But seriously there are tales to tell on the long dark nights. That would raise the hairs on the back of your neck and would have you looking over your shoulder every few minutes, about the Legendary Horneteers on a night out. The dasterly deeds of a certain pair of brothers from Kent, the antics of the Brightlingsea fleet along with the prowess of the drinking and womanising of the Mayflower fleet ( we were n't one of the top fleets in the later days). Chiv's and Dougal should be able to tell some wonderful tales.
It's a bit like you can take the girl out of Essex but not Essex out of the girl. Once a Horneteer always a Horneteer.

Cheers Al
Last edited by alan williams on Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:55 pm

However two of my favourite cartoons the second Colin Stokes one comes with the Sub Heading "What a coincidence darling there was a large fleet here too!"
Simples.

User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: A question

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:58 pm

Attached this time!

<ADMIN Copyright ALERT>


Sorry, no attachment!

I think I best remind everyone that we really do need to take a little care with putting up copyrighted images on the forum.

Both Neil and I are very aware that the current practice on most forums is to totally ignore copyright laws and put up anything that you can scan/copy/download, whoever it belongs to, but we really are not prepared to put the forum or the CVRDA in too much risk.

So we do ask you to endeavor to stay within the law, or at least to take some real care to only use low risk material.

Recently, we have used some images which are potentially dangerous. I started with an image of a Stanley Spencer Painting. Certainly against the law, but I considered pretty low risk. The Vikings poster is very borderline......but I think most would agree that as it was made for general public release and 40-50 years ago, it is unlikely to catch too much attention. BUT it is still against the law.

However, copies or scans of relatively recent cartoons that are the copyright of alive commercial artists are just way too dodgy. If any of these designers/artists took us to court, they could close us down overnight.

We just can't take the risk.

So what can I do?

If you are the author, you can do what you want with the image - go ahead and post!

If you are not the author, but you have permission from the author to use the image/drawing etc, please do just give a credit and go ahead.

If you are not the author and you don't have permission. Ask yourself this. Does this image have any commercial value? Did the author make it as part of his/her business? Do people buy and sell this image? If the answer is yes to any of these and you don't have permission. DO NOT USE IT!

If you are not the author, you don't have permission, but you consider the image to have no commercial value at all.....then you may consider it low-risk enough to post it. However, do not be surprised if Neil or I remove it if we disagree with your assessment.

If you have an image - that you want to show, but feel that it would be not allowed here for the reasons above, do please feel free to put it on your own webspace or other shared space and simply link to it from here.

I am sorry if this sounds over-zealous, but I have already heard of one well known sailing photography company based in the Isle of White going quite hard after a sailing association because it had used one of their photos without permission.

So please take care out there!

Ed-Admin
Simples.

alan williams
Posts: 1649
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:44 pm
Location: Devon

Re: A question

Post by alan williams » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:09 pm

Hi AG
The first card is exactly what I had in mind. I think thats Dougal in the bow holding the axe and Captain Dangerous on the helm. The character on the starboard bow with the long beard looking like your's truely when I had hair.
Cheers Al

davidh
Posts: 3162
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: A question

Post by davidh » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:40 pm

coming ashore to kill all the women and rape all the men (a quote from.... Not the 9 O'clock news, may have been an earlier Python episode) - though come to think of it, some of the early hornet meetings were a bit pythonesque

D
David H

Nigel
Posts: 1238
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:51 am
Location: Thornbury SC, Bristol

Re: A question

Post by Nigel » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:11 am

Doesn't copyright time out? I quick scan of Wikipedia ("about as reliable as an Ebay tapemeasure" © Nigel Vause 2008) indicate 70 years after the artist's death. Not sure how this applies to corporate fodder such as the film poster though.

Perhaps we should rebrand ourselves as the Classic & Vintage Racing Dinghy Educational Association as Education seems to have be an exception

User avatar
Ed
Site Admin
Posts: 3473
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Plymouth
Contact:

Re: A question

Post by Ed » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:51 am

Yes and no.

Yes, copyright does run out after 70yrs past the death of the creator.

I don't think this was the case with any of these works (Stanley Spencer 1891-1959) and isn't likely to be with anything connected to classic dinghy racing, pretty much all of which is post war.

No, being in education doesn't negate the law of copyright and there isn't any law which gives education the right to publish copyrighted works on the internet.

This is a misconception. It is true that much of education has worked on the misinformed assumption that they didn't have to worry about copyright....because it was part of 'teaching' that was one of the 'fair dealing' exceptions. But to be honest, in the modern digital age, this has very little truth. It may be argued that it is OK to make a hard-copy and give that to students whilst teaching on a campus....or as 'directly part of instruction or examination'.

But there is no way that education or anyone else can publish or re-publish copyrighted works on a website without permission.

The only 'possible' defense and it is that....not a 'right' is to use the fair dealing exception: 'Criticism and Review'. You could be allowed (if the courts agreed) to publish a very limited amount of material from a copyrighted source if it was part of a book review. However, most would consider this a pretty tenuous and untested defense and certainly not a 'right'.

Anyway, if this immensely large and rather boring subject does tickle your fancy, you might like to look at one of the following:

http://www.web2rights.org.uk

or:

http://sca.jiscinvolve.org/about/

or

http://www.ipo.gov.uk

cheers

eib

ps both Neil and I are quite heavily involved in Copyright within education....and this is of course why we feel the particular need to be seen to be 'doing it right'. This cuts two ways. We don't want the possibility of any of our work colleagues saying "How come you say this in work.....if you do that out of work". We also don't want any clever lawyers going after the CVRDA saying "You can't claim ignorance.....you work in 'copyright' and should know better".
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

davidh
Posts: 3162
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: A question

Post by davidh » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:43 am

Ed,

Thanks for the insight and though some may whitter (not twitter, that is something very different!) about topic, in this case I'd say - thanks anyway and here is why..... so yes, it is relevent.

Just the other day I was listening to a debate on the Beeb - subject was 'Google Books' who have uploaded whole books onto the web, often with only the most tenuous of permissions. One of the case studies involved a guy who restored classic Aston Martins (see how the arguement is developing....).

He'd found one of his books suddenly 'up' on Google books, once there it is too late to put the cork back in the bottle.

Bringing the topic back to this forum now - in the past year two of us CVRDAers have had books published and are working on others that may well have a direct relationship to the classic dinghy scene (I know my next book but one will be very close to many classic dinghy sailors hearts).

In small, specialised markets (let's face it, these books are not Harry Potter) there is little enough in the way of reward for the authors, if the web is allowed to eat further into that then the end result will be that even more information will be either hoarded on a private basis -or worse....lost.

So - copying upder the guise of 'education' may happen but thanks to your clear definition - I know now that it shouldn't.

Thanks - now I understand!

D
David H

Locked