CVRDA Worlds

[PeterV]

I'm on holiday in Connecticut and I've just spent a great day at Mystic Seaport. It's a great place for all wooden boat lovers and we definitely need to have the CVRDA worlds there! Who would like to sponsor a couple of containers?

[Bill-Conner]

Be careful though, as the Wayfarers found out this year we were told by the ISAF they owned anything World and sailing we had to call our World Championships something else.
There are enough Shipping People in sailing to maybe get you a deal though on containers.

[Nessa]

We're about to go to Oregon. If Roger's Hornet packs flat enough maybe we could take it out as luggage, perhaps the marauder too, since it's dangerously close to being matchwood. Or poerhaps we should just ask ikea for help!

[Pat]

At least IKEA would give pictorial assembly instructions and all the right fittings

[davidh]

Does it also get your the 16 year old who can show you how to put it together properly?

two other interesting facets... yes, the comment was spot on- call NOTHING 'worlds' unless you want an irate ISAF waving a big stick at you.

and secondly...not sure where all the help getting containers comes from..... these days there is little sentiment in the shipping business!

D

[neil]

pah! ISAF - who cares

this is a small association for the sailing/talking about/doing up of classic boats, it's not the Royal Yacht Squadron. ISAF have nothing to do with us. We are a bunch of people who want to sail our boats when and where we want to. We are free, as is anyone else, to use nearly any word to name what they do. Is the word 'Worlds' trademarked? I think not.

I propose we hold a CVRDA World championship in 2011. Think of it like the World Series, only not in America and not baseball.

[JimC]

We are free, as is anyone else, to use nearly any word to name what they do.

But only if we don't want to sail at any clubs affiliated to the RYA or use the ISAF racing rules...

Recent tradition is to call such events Intergalactic Championships...

[Michael Brigg]

Does the ISAF have rights to Inverted Commas??

ie "The CVRDA "Worlds." "

This would put such a contest into accurate context, respect the auspicity of an international event and look good on paper.

[neil]

or as the CVRDA is virtual organisation the emoticon has its place in any future branding

The CVRDA "Worlds"

[davidh]

Neil,

If this wasn't so serious it would be hilarious - but I have to tell you it isn't. The title 'World Championships' - along with plain old 'Worlds' and a host of other titles that all mean the same thing are jealously guarded. Even a hint of any trepsass on what is regarded by those who (expensively) run our sport as their 'domain' can bring about a swift bout of sabre rattling. As Jim C made clear, no use of their rules... any any sailing club/official who was involved would face their wrath. It's like something out of Star Wars.... The Empire fights back!

A year or so ago I had sight of the business plan for a World Championships: The single biggest item of cost was the 5 INternational Jurors that ISAF insisted be allocated to the events (less than 100 entries!).. These five are picked from a global panel - the event has to bear the cost of flying them in (forget coach class), collection from the airport and delivering them to the event - hotels, meals..... communications.... to say that the costs escalated fast would be an understatement. There was a fair bit of resistence by the Organisers to accept this, many had memories of a previous event they'd hosted where one of the Jurors turned up with a small child and expected the club to provide a creche during the day and a listening/monitoring service at night!!!!

However, at the merest hint of dissent, the big stick was waved..... get back in line or else.

It does make one wonder...... what would happen if sailing dropped out of the Olympics - which would result in a huge hole in the accounts? That may or may not happen - but what IS happening - right now - is that the cost of global travel, shipping containers of boats here and there, insurance and the like is hitting the numbers who can travel to the foreign events. But as the numbers of Jurors stays the same, the cost overhead, per competitor goes up, so more people decide not to attend, which hikes even further the per unit costs.

If Sail for Gold at Weymouth was anything to go by, the 2012 shindig at Weymouth may just be something of a Götterdämmerung.......


D

[neil]

OK, this is in Banter and is reasonably tongue-in-cheek so I'd prefer not to have the annual threat of legal action

Does using a set of rules then transfer ownership or control to the organisation who developed the rules? Perhaps this is a chance to run CVRDA races under our own or a period set of rules What sanctions would ISAF impose on us? Ban us from sailing? Strip the sail numbers from our boats? would we get a stern letter from the RYA? Would we be banned from RYA affiliated clubs ( I know several members are already banned from some clubs already )

There is a point about organisations such as ISAF. Surely, its a Federation of Associations, something that needs to be highlighted occasionally. Associations are there for the members and need to be reminded about their roots, they are not a political body (despite what people think or hope) or have any control over what we do.

so..ISAF will get upset if the word 'Worlds' is used. so what? They have no say on what we in the CVRDA do. Surely It's about the boats, some sailing and having a good time, not world domination. It's hard enough to get people on the water without another layer of bureaucratic idiocy to contend with.

[Rupert]

Tell you what - if we get an entry to the "CVRDA National Rally" from outside the UK early enough, I will change the title to the "CVRDA International Rally". If I get entries from 5 continents, I shall call it the Worlds, and take the flak.

[davidh]

Rupert and Neil,

Of course common sense has a big part to play in all of this!
I've noted that classes such as the Buzz and ISO having a bash out at Lake Garda and calling it the Europeans and they have not been burnt at the stake. (and Rupert - at some of these events I'm sure that they would love to have competitors from more than 5 nations..)

But as a talking point (this was after all in the banter section) the comments that made been made, first by Jim C and then by myself - are just an indication of how pervasive the degree of control from above has become.

Over on the Y&Y forum, there is a forum string about the 'new' womens skiff, a string that Jim C and Chris 249 (on of our international berthren down in the land of koalas and kangaroos) have both commented on. The thread has started to wander into a much wider debate about the desireability and popularity of skiff sailing - and how this relates to the bigger issue of the sport of dinghy racing.

To me there are some big straws in the wind, when well informed and insightful commentators such as Jim and Chris start to question what is happening. Here in the UK we are not remote from this: at a well know East Coast club, the massed ranks of RS boats and 'skiffs' have faded away to be replaced by Fireballs and Merlin Rockets.

I do not think there is any one 'cause' - instead lots of fators BUT one of them just happens to be that dreaded topic that we started out on - the Authorities (be it the RYA or ISAF) know best.... they will tell us what are the pathway classes for the young, will vote on what happens at International meetings (did the RYA ever have a mandate to vote for the 29erxx over the 470?) and will generally organise and orchestrate what we can do and how we can do it.

Sailing in the UK has been lucky in that it has been one of the least regulated of pastimes yet in many insiduous ways the fun and relaxed atmosphere that we have taken for granted is being eroded. I think what the cvrda do is brill - long may it continue and with any luck the beady eye of 'Big brother' will be so busy dealing with 2012 (and the post 2012 environment - when the money runs out) that they will be happy to let us get on with what we do, without interference.

D

[PeterV]

...my, don't some people take things seriously! It was only meant to be an innocent comment on what a lovely place Mystic is and would be even better if there were some wooden dinghies racing there!

[JimC]

I've noted that classes such as the Buzz and ISO having a bash out at Lake Garda and calling it the Europeans

There aren't the same restrictions: its only Worlds that are a protected name.
On the one hand I can see the point: it rather devalues the status of World champion if some class sailed only in a corner of the US and Canada calls its open event a World Championship, which is the sort of thing that used to happen.
On the other hand I'd back the roll call of names associated with the Cherub World title through the late 60s through the early 80s against any other class out there: Bowler, Farr, Bethwaite, Murray, Spencer, Daubney, Wilmot, Buckland, Howlett, Patterson, Marten, MacKay... there are precious few classes that can boast a roll call of that quality. And you can also make a case that the World status thing is the reason the Cherubs subsided, because the NZ National authority took a conscious decision to only support International classes which more or less killed off their Cherub fleet, and since then their Olympic and other top level performance has been tumbling...