Insect control.

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Brookesy
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Insect control.

Post by Brookesy » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:09 pm

I have not been on the forum for a while and thought I was on the wrong one. there seems to be a huge influx of a certain modern boat maybe its the weather bringing them out but a dose of DDT may put things right. :twisted:
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billytwiglet
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Re: Insect control.

Post by billytwiglet » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:14 pm

Bees have moved into my mirror - in the garage!

I'm trying to sell it; should I charge extra for the honey :?
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roger
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Re: Insect control.

Post by roger » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:00 pm

Are they honeybees? If they have been there for some time it may be a bit of a task but I am sure a local beekeeper will move them.
If you were nearer me I would give them a good home.

Please whatever you do dont destroy them.

On the other insects we have an invasion of clothes moths which I am blaming Chris Barlow.

Any pics of the bees in the Mirror it would go well on the beekeepers website
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Michael Brigg
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Re: Insect control.

Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:07 am

roger wrote: On the other insects we have an invasion of clothes moths which I am blaming Chris Barlow.

Any pics of the bees in the Mirror it would go well on the beekeepers website
Pray, tell all!

The bees would look good on this site too! (We need something to compare with with our Canadian cousins Bears and Beavers!!)
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roger
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Re: Insect control.

Post by roger » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:57 am

Chris has had trouble with Moths that were imported in a piano and as he lives in the same town it must be his fault that we have moth trouble to :D

Bees? I have been keeping bees for a few years now and it is always interesting to note what they think of as a suitable home rather than the boring square box normally on offer.
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trebor
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Re: Insect control.

Post by trebor » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:41 pm

Hi Brooksey, Bats are good with Moths, and one of those Bug Zappers, keep them away from your clothes and they are harmless, I may cut 2 feet of my aquabat, this will then allow me to call it an Aquamoth. rob.
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billytwiglet
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Re: Insect control.

Post by billytwiglet » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:58 pm

Not the regular honey bees, I'm afraid. These are wild 'bumble' variety with black, yellow and white fur coats on. The sails are all rolled up in the boat along with other bits and pieces so I haven't figured out where they are yet.
Don't want to disturb them really, but I might have to relocate them.

Pics to follow...
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roger
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Re: Insect control.

Post by roger » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:12 pm

billytwiglet wrote:Not the regular honey bees, I'm afraid. These are wild 'bumble' variety with black, yellow and white fur coats on. The sails are all rolled up in the boat along with other bits and pieces so I haven't figured out where they are yet.
Don't want to disturb them really, but I might have to relocate them.

Pics to follow...
Bumbles only nest for one year and then the queens reared that year mate and hibernate. They are very difficult to move as the cups they rear their young in and store their food are open unlike honey bees which seal each cell.
I tried to move bumbles once as a builder was replacing the roof they were in. The nest doesnt hold together well and it wasnt very successful.
It is quite a simple process but he outcomes are not very successful.
If you can leave them bee(ha ha) until the autumn they will have finished and moved on. If you cant I can give you some pointers to moving them. Bumbles seldom sting unless you really really upset them so they are safe to have in the garage. Unlike one of my hives at the moment who chase me up the field if I even dare to look at them.
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Nessa
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Re: Insect control.

Post by Nessa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:36 pm

Her indoors got stung on the head by a bee last week so the borrower gave her a bar of chocolate.

Who is that calling my boat 'modern'? How very dare you! Even the newer one is not exactly modern by modern standards, and the old one certainly isn't modern, not even close. It can't be, it has tufnol on it, and wooden bits.
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Spiderman
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Re: Insect control.

Post by Spiderman » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:36 pm

Brookesy wrote:I have not been on the forum for a while and thought I was on the wrong one. there seems to be a huge influx of a certain modern boat maybe its the weather bringing them out but a dose of DDT may put things right. :twisted:
Nessa's quite right. The first boat that became the basis of the Moth class was built in 1928 by Len Morris in Australia and the International Moth Class Association (IMCA) was subsequently formed in the USA in 1935 which when you consider that Rickard Sarby didn't design the Finn until 1949 makes the Finn more "modern" depending on your definition.
Ah but the Finn is a one design unlike the Moth which is a development class I hear you say...well yes that's true, but it's funny how Ben Ainslie's Finn looks a lot more modern than the one that Paul Elvstrom won the 1952 Olympics in. It appears to have benefitted greatly from technology and materials developed in the Moth class such as Carbon masts and laminate sails to name but two! Nothing stays the same forever and some things just change more quickly than others especially if the class rules are designed to promote innovation and development. Nessa's "Yellow Peril" is more akin to a Finn than it is to a Foiling Moth and even has wooden spars so could hardly be descrbed as modern and my Shelley isn't much different although it doeas have Ally spars and a stayed rig. Fair enough, some of the lowriders that have been talked about on the forum lately are from the 80s or early 90s, but are still not that modern compared to the latest foilers and would almost certainly be lapped if they raced against them so it's really the rapid rate of progress that defines how modern a Moth is.
The performance difference between Ben's Finn and one built in the 80s would be relatively small compared to Moths of similar ages, however, I suspect that the latest "Rita" would be considered much more modern, even in Finn circles.
Anyway, I know that you were only teasing us Mothies and probably only because you are not small enough to sail one although you could easily pick one up under each arm if you can sail downwind like Ben!

Regards

Ian M

alan williams
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Re: Insect control.

Post by alan williams » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:50 am

I think you have missed the point. The beef as I saw it was that most of the boats being discussed were in fact outside of the CVRDA criteria which is designed before 1965 and the key words Built before 1985. More modern Moths can race with the CVRDA fleet at the discretion of that clubs race officials but it is not a right. They may also not be awarded places or prizes. I allowed such a boat to enter the Roadford event and it was agreed that they would sail under these terms. I do feel however that there is sufficent interest amoungst the lowrider group that they should also be lobbying their Class Assoc to set up a classic class. I do not think I would allow a post 1985 Moth into the National regardless of whether they sailed to the above conditions. As I feel that the Nationals should remain a special event solely for qualifing boats. Re Finns the boats that sail within the CVRDA are All meeting the CVRDA requirements. These boats are pre 1985 and using masts which are Ali or wood with dacron sails. Most CVRDA Finn sailors either have two boats a modern Devoti or Pata as well an old boat which is kept solely for CVRDA or have a modern Carbon laminate rig and a CVRDA qualifiying rigs. So comparision of the Moth situation with that of the Finns is not a valid statement. Don't get me wrong both Graham and myself have owned Moths in are youth myself a Chelsea Morning and also a Scow and Graham a Nervous Breakdown. I wish you all success in founding your classic group. One idea which would be postitive would be to ask if you could share a CVRDA meeting with us. I think most if not all organisers would be open to this I certainly would be. The Pre 1985 boats could still sail CVRDA and the more modern boats could have their own series piggy backing off ours. This is what we as classic sailors in the Finns did. We then won recognition from the Class Assoc. and now have spread internationally with there being a German Classic Assoc. and talks of setting up other classic Finn Assoc. within the various National Finn Assoc. of other countries.
I would like to see at some time a European Classic Championship and eventually a World Championship. From small acorns mighty Oaks grow.This season every Finn Open and the National Championship has a prize for the first classic boat, progress.
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Spiderman
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Re: Insect control.

Post by Spiderman » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:28 pm

Sorry Alan, but I don't think that I have missed the point at all. If you re-read my post all I was doing was having a tongue in cheek attempt at showing how the word "modern" can be interpreted in several ways depending on your point of view. I took it that Brookesy was simply passing comment on the fact that there have been a lot of recent posts regarding Moths, some of which may have been about boats that don't qualify under CVRDA rules. In none of my posts have I ever suggested that any of these should be allowed to compete at the Nationals although I would support limited access to other events along similar lines to what was agreed at Roadford. I also agree with you that should the interest level rise sufficiently it might be worth trying to get the UK Moth class association to support a lowrider series. This may prove rather difficult, however, as very few current Moth sailors will have had any connection with the class prior to the foiling explosion so may see it as an irrelevance. My idea, much as you suggest, would be to allow lowrider Moths to attend certain CVRDA events at the host club's discretion, but exclude them from the final results. They could have a seperate results sheet and provide their own prizes if desired. This would encourage participation and help gauge the true level of commitment and interest towards a dedicated series of events. We need to establish just how many acorns there are before we assume that we will soon be dealing with an oak forest!
I think that you will find that our views turn out to be pretty similar after all...
Regards
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alan williams
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Re: Insect control.

Post by alan williams » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:22 pm

Hi
You are correct that at no time have you personally mentioned sailing in the Nats. and this comment was of a general nature and not ment to be seen as a barb towards you guys. As regards from small acorns mighthy oaks grow this was in reference to the fact that most organisations start small and then expand. I used the classic Finns as an example of what you easy rider (joking) mothies could achieve ( the Classic Finns are at the sapling stage of development),. The Classic Finns started out with Brooksey and me at Roadford we then picked up other sailors such as Pete Venton,(then at Baltic Wharf ) Dave Harker ( Roadford) Neil Witt (Roadford) and Mark Belshore(Falmouth) amongest other's and started sailing CVRDA events. Word got around and Brooksey brought an old finn which we based at Roadford as a have ago classic Finn. This boat a South African Morrison (no relation to Phil Morrison), dispite looking like a shed proved to be extremley quick and everyone who sailed it won a race. Needless to say we had alot of people chasing old finns after this. People in other clubs lent out finns to try and slowly things started to happen. To the extent that at one time we had more people chasing old boats than boats available for sale. Another spin off has been to the modern finns in that people are now buying newer competitive finns but still keeping the old one's for Classic CVRDA events, which has pleased the Class Assoc. Stick with the lowrider concept and hassle your Assoc. Most Assoc. are short of members and funds and should welcome you with open arms( even if it's only the cash their after).. If not do what the Amercians have done set up your own Classic Moth Assoc. I could see that this would be of benefit to both Assoc. and an American event would be really something to aim for. I feel that if we can help you get established this would be a good thing for everyone.
Rupert has recently singledhandedly ressurrected the Minisail Assoc., which has made a pretty good come back with fleabay being full of them recently. I would like to think that such a thing could happen with this type of Moth rather that see them abandoned in dinghy parks.
Hope you manage to achieve your objectives.
Al Finn 424,670 ex Mothie
Last edited by alan williams on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:27 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Brookesy
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Re: Insect control.

Post by Brookesy » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:44 pm

Ian,

It was certainly not my intention to bring any controversy to the forum or start a 'my boat has been established longer than yours has' type competition.

As Alan pointed out I have owned both British and International Moths in my younger leaner days and am fully aware of their history and development, and was regularly told that my moth should be swatted or worse when it outperformed both its handicap and my sailing abilities, and it was in this vein that I made my light hearted comments at the start of this thread when I was amazed to see the ammount of threads active on the forum relating to Moths in general.

We are very fortunate within the Finn class as the Classic boats (pre 85 with dacron sails and wood/alloy masts) are wecomed by our class association and sail together at open meetings, and it is satisfying that the performance difference is not that great, especially on flat waters as it enables the older boats to feel more included in the class overall, It is the main advantage of not being a development class.

We have another advantage in that we have our own forum at http://www.classicfinn.org but we are still included on the main forum itself, and also on this one.

You seem to me to have a good deal of support from your classic lowrider boats, perhaps the route the Classic Finns have taken would suit yourselves. I would certainly visit it, as you say, I may be too big for one, but I still have a soft spot for them, and before some jumps in and mentions it, its not a tar pit.....
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Nessa
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Re: Insect control.

Post by Nessa » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:09 pm

well, if I organise another cvrda event here at Hunts next year it will certainly be a joint low rider/cvrda meet. It will be interesting to see how much interest this raises. I am trying to find out about a moth fest here in the autumn, but that is proving tricky at the moment because the sailing sec keeps going away.

So how old is my magnum 6? Is it pre '85? Sorry, but I really don't know much about moth history. I hope it is because I was planning to bring both it and the Peril (thanks!) to BB. If the magnum is not eligible it will be the ToY I guess.
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