Is the cvrda the way to go?

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trebor
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by trebor » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:54 pm

David, how can trying to increase the cost of classic dinghies bring more people into or keep people sailing ?
The cvrda may not be mainstream, but any part of the whole must do its bit. I have found the cvrda to be a one stop shop for my old boat, advice on repairs and modifications where to obtain items, tools that members have purchased and how good they are.
Training at Whitefriars and the chance to sail at other waters with other like minded sailors etc.
Robert
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Bill-Conner
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by Bill-Conner » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:54 am

The CVRDA does fulfill at least one useful function for our sport it potentialy provides another "Grass Roots" foundation for all ages for our sport, regardless opf age or ability, this is lacking at oh so many clubs and centres.
The one caveat is that when introducing people to this wonderful sport it is essential that the boat works, ropes run etc., nothing puts people off quicker than SNAFUS.
I would say its near ideal for its purpose.
We should be pleased if people grow out of the ethos and go on to rockstardom or just bigger and better boats they'll be back!

alan williams
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by alan williams » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:54 pm

As someone who has a state of the art Finn and a shed of a Finn. I would like to say that in the past I've had very expensive boats (and still have), but I get more fun out of sailing the shed as I know that it's only my efforts giving me a position NOT the TECH. My new boat is a lap faster than the shed (it was also tuned by Sid Howlett and big Ben), but does not give me as much pleasure as sailing the shed past some very expensive boats. You have to work alot harder in the old finn's as the rig does not work with you as much. The CVRDA has also enabled me to sail and own some very interesting and rare boats not all of which were good, some which have been coverted by other's, and boats which have been classified as rubbish by some. Each to their own.
If someone takes the time and effort just to get a boat and then learn to sail it that's excellent. If that person then finds us by what ever means that's better.
Becoming a vintage car club with all the hassle and expense that that envolves to me is not what the CVRDA is about, see the mission statement. There will never be a classic upmarket for dinghies, they are dinghies for heaven's sake not Dragons or yachts although some boats will demand high prices. However something is only worth what a person is prepared to pay. I notice a very highly priced Jolly boat did not sell.
Lets concentrate on having fun, not giving a fig about what people are sailing or being fussed about who's winning. When I want the of heat competition I've my modern Finn. My membership of the CVRDA allows me to sail with people of all abilities in a relaxed atmostphere.
Cheers Al
PS Shed may be getting quick rub down this winter weather permitting.
Last edited by alan williams on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

davidh
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by davidh » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:05 pm

Alan,

I think most of us who post on here have had a 'shed' (or two) in their lifetime and like you, gained a huge deal of pleasure from sailing them.

But to boldly state that there 'will never be a classic upmarket for dinghies' is a personal view that could be seen as ignoring some of the more recent real world activities ashore and afloat. Indeed, the afternoon spent with the Concours judges at Bosham could well have shown that the classic dinghy market is indeed started to develop and in some ways mature. I've other evidence of this as well, where some seriously big money is going in to dinghy restoration.

I too have real concerns about some of these developments and what they would mean to everyday sailors and in this respect i'm close in thinking to the likes of yourself, Rupert and Neil - what we do not want to see is for classic dinghy sailing to become an expensive and elitist activity in the way that classic yachts/ motorbikes and the like have gone. I've been very careful not to say what is right or wrong but instead to report what I see happening.

What would worry me - and worry me a lot, is if the 'shed sailing' got celebrated and promoted to the detriment of the wider classic scene. Let's instead celebrate and promote the incredible diversity and innovation that runs richly through the heritage of dinghy sailing, be that with an Aquabat or a Zenith (how's that for an 'off the top of the head A-Z'?) and I stand by my often repeated support for the 'lost classes' side of the CVRDA; nor will I apologise for thinking that saving an Explorer, a Kirby Dart or a Wizard is actually more important than restoring another Expectant/NSM/IXb or Fairey Albacore, Firefly or Finn - of which there are no shortage of well saved examples.

The flip side to the above arguement is that if we're not careful, the Associationcould be perceived by the wider dinghy sailing community to be involved in a race....but not a race amongst classics, but a race to the 'bottom'.

But I remain a die-hard supporter of the classic dinghy in all it's forms and hope to help, in my own small way, with the continued promotion of this wonderful part of the sport!

D
David H

alan williams
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by alan williams » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:42 pm

Hi Dave
I agree that the less popular classes/ one off deserve to be saved and would sooner seek one out than conserve an immaculate Fireball/ GP/Enterprise etc but once again each to their own. However I would question the point in rebuilding an old design sticking the thwart off an original boat and passing it off as Classic. It's like building a classic Porshe with all new parts with only the wheels and registration papers being old and racing it in the classic racing series. People do it and some getaway with it but it's not ethical. It would be a Replica of an old boat not an original boat.I agree that some boats will be worth real money for all sorts of reasons, racing record, first of type. previous owners, outstanding condition or originality etc. Some boats will always be in greater demand such as those featuring classic construction methods or designs. A Nat 18 will always be more expensive than say an Enterprise because the intial cost to build was higher. But I don't feel that the market is big enough to generate a future for highly priced classic boats.I would like to think that fair play will have out and that money will never be a measure of success in the CVRDA. Which after all was setup for this very reason. If people want to spend mega bucks sailing a "replica" then I sure we could create a class for them. Bosham SC does not really represent the grass roots CVRDA sailor being shall we say a nice UP market Club with a huge membership with allot of personal wealth that reverie nostalgic ideals.

Cheers Al

Rupert
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by Rupert » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:08 pm

Yep, there are some beautiful classic dinghies around, usually clinker built, and worth a fair amount of money, though not as much as they will have cost to restore. They are beautiful, but are only a very small part of the classic dinghy scene. Trouble is, the classic yacht scene appears to begin and end with this kind of boat in larger form, with classic GRP or plywood boats not being thought of as anything but inferior. At least, this is the impression I get from classic yachting mags. I would hate to see the cvrda going down this route, though I love to see the gleaming boats at events too.

I suppose I see the old banger boat as being in more danger of disappearing than the beautiful classic, being squeezed between the "club racers in newer boats with loads of new kit" and the "classics have to be beautiful" ends of the market. These are the people who, when they turn up at a club, are in danger of being looked down upon because what they have isn't up to scratch. I'm sure it has happened to most on here. If they then go along to a classics event, and are looked down on there, too (or just plain ignored, as everybody gravitates to the so called concours boats) then they may just decide to go and take up bowls instead.

I remember one event where the most talked about boat was an old, sinking Scorpion. Took 4 of us to lift her into the water, and 6 to get her out. I hope there will always be room for boats like that (as will as restorations) at cvrda events.
Rupert

davidh
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by davidh » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:59 pm

Alan and Rupert - agree with both of you and yes, in the crazy world of today it is quite possible to hold both views and still be a supporter of the cause in its truest sense.

FYI - as a Class, the Merlin Rockets seem more aware than most of the potential dangers of allowing the extremes in 'restoration' to rule the roost and as such, will be pulling a number of people together to get an idea of how big the problem really is - if indeed there even 'is' a problem. I know that Chris B will be getting an invite - as indeed will I, we can but hope that at the very least some 'direction' comes out of this that will help take the classic scene forwards (for surely where the MRs go, others will follow)

I do though think it is a very dodgy line of thought to hold that 'it won't happen to the dinghies'; recently here on the island we had a meet for classic tractors and it now seems that the rusty hulks of old Massey-Fergusens that used to fill in the gaps in the hedgerows are now highly sought after and starting to attract good money! Ditto motorbikes....for so long the poor relation to the classic car scene, now even an old 200cc Tiger Cub, that spewed oil and bottom ends repeatedly over the highway, these too are prized finds in a shed.

Again though that over arching word of caution - it's all a bit like the environment! By the time we make up to the fact that we've got it all wrong, it will be too late to do much about it. Far better therefore to start restoring the Ark now and not once the water is lapping around the ankles!

D
David H

Rupert
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by Rupert » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:48 pm

I guess so long as some people are into saving the rare beasts, others want to keep classes going and yet more want an object of beauty, we have most of the bases covered. What we need to be careful of is one "type" looking down on the others and thinking that their "thing" is more worthwhile that the others. I'm sure we are all guilty of that to a degree, but it will put newcomers off.
Rupert

JimC
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by JimC » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:49 pm

davidh wrote: now even an old 200cc Tiger Cub, that spewed oil and bottom ends repeatedly over the highway, these too are prized finds in a shed.
Where have you been David? That was already the case thirty years ago when I was in the bike trade...

Lukey T
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Re: Is the cvrda the way to go?

Post by Lukey T » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:27 pm

[quote="Rupert"]


I still think it is a minority interest, though, but the minority could be larger than it is, if people could see past coffee table boat mags and realize that it doesn't have to be like that.




Classic boat mag made by the people who own them ?
Luke

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