Lee shore.

Please use this area for off topic conversations and banter
User avatar
trebor
Posts: 958
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:53 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Lee shore.

Post by trebor » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:11 pm

Robert
Minisprint 4230
Tinker Traveller 160
Mirror 61147 Anastasia
http://www.aquabatdinghy.co.uk

kfz
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:38 pm
Location: Liverpool SC
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by kfz » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:08 pm

Nice little vid. Not sure how I come back in cat rig, bare poles?. On my GP I'd drop the main and come on the Jib, let it fly for the last run in. If it started going wrong id pull it in, close reach on jib alone, go back out.


Kev

User avatar
trebor
Posts: 958
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:53 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by trebor » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:51 pm

The final 3 came in bare poles and it was still frantic, in the topic I raised earlier this year regarding landing on a lee shore, it was prompted by me trying to land in these conditions, I actually finished up half on the bank, only daggerboard stopped a full landing, the prevailing wind is from south west and blows straight on to jetty, committee are investing in a floating jetty to be put at 90 degrees to existing.
Robert
Minisprint 4230
Tinker Traveller 160
Mirror 61147 Anastasia
http://www.aquabatdinghy.co.uk

kfz
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:38 pm
Location: Liverpool SC
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by kfz » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:38 pm

Ha ha. Great fun. Kamikaze run in.......

Kev

Michael Brigg
Posts: 1662
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Lee shore.

Post by Michael Brigg » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:42 pm

When at sea and faced with this kind of problem the usual practice as you approach the shore is to stick a leg (or two) over the side as a brake/sea anchor. In tidal waters the landing is usually onto a sloping shore, so even if you haven't fully slowed down, as soon as it is shallow enough you can jump over the side, even if that means up to your neck, and hold the boat off head to wind while someone gets a trolley. If on your own in an emergency it might be necessary to tip the boat over, or heave it up the beach few feet, and any method will require you to get wet, but if the wind is like this, that is to be expected.

Better a few scratches and sodden clothes from a quick haul up the beach though, than bouncing up and down on the shore/gravel in the surf.
Michael Brigg

davidh
Posts: 3162
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Lee shore.

Post by davidh » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:25 pm

Now I heard it all....... some pretty cack handed ways of doing things here.

When Dave Pitman was just about the accepted 'king' of heavy weather sailing, he got asked by one of the sailing magazines to do a series on the techniques needed to not just survive in extreme conditions but to prosper.

The last in the series covered coming back onto a lee shore in wild conditions and this is his recommendation.

Furl/roll the jib/genoa.

Sail in towards your preferred landing spot, then luff up and 'hold' position.

Plate up 2/3rds.

At this point the crew goes over the side, works around to the bow and holds onto the forestay.

If you're sailing with a fixed rudder, the helm can now ship it, other than that he pushes out the main a fraction, first one side, then the other, steering the boat in under complete control. The crew, hanging onto the forestay, makes a wonderful drogue and helps keep the boat bow too - stern straight onto the shore.

In the last 10m of so, the helm trips the main halyard and drops the main down into the boat, just in time for the crew to have his feet on the bottom.

It sounds hard on the crew but it is actually a lot better than the alternatives!!

D
David H

JimC
Posts: 1713
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Surrey
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by JimC » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:26 pm

Hove to to windward of the beach, both foils up, come in sideways. When nearish beach one hops over the side with both arms round shrouds to act as sea anchor. When feet touch bottom other one hops out. Tip boat over and have someone on the beach catch the mast head, then just carry the boat out sideways. If there's too much surf for this to be practical then go and find somewhere else to sail.

User avatar
trebor
Posts: 958
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:53 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by trebor » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:29 pm

Hi David, What does he say about solo sailing?
The water is deep right up to jetty, if you go over the water will probably be over your head, I have capsized and released the sail before now, then righted and drifted in to shore (I can now release sail without doing this).
Robert
Minisprint 4230
Tinker Traveller 160
Mirror 61147 Anastasia
http://www.aquabatdinghy.co.uk

User avatar
Nessa
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: East Angular

Re: Lee shore.

Post by Nessa » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:03 am

If you can release the sail the do so and drift in on bare poles. If not, lie to across the wind and again drift in sideways. I agree with Kev about the double handed method: you need to drop the main and come in under jib alone. It's no good sending the crew over the side if they can't touch bottom.
Yellow Peril
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
Manky old Wayfarer
Stealth
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469

kfz
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:38 pm
Location: Liverpool SC
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by kfz » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:20 am

Nessa wrote:If you can release the sail the do so and drift in on bare poles. If not, lie to across the wind and again drift in sideways. I agree with Kev about the double handed method: you need to drop the main and come in under jib alone. It's no good sending the crew over the side if they can't touch bottom.
Luffing up is my preferred method at my home club, but its normally never possible due to the strong tide, you need to be in fairly shallow water. Need to be able to stand up. Probably only manage to luff up when we have dont have a Lee shore, very rare.

Luffing is great as it allows you to bug out if things start going wrong. Headsail alone - The GP will go back to wind ok on the jib and pretty good on the geny so you still have the option to clear out and start again, but bare poles your sorta committed.

To make matter *much* worse you will have to stem the tide as well and it can be damn awkward in some wind directions. Dont make any claim to be able to recover with any grace with 6 knts of wind over tide and light winds on the nose of a Lee shore. Still experimenting with bare poles and oars Get the boat uptide and row away from the slip, the idea that your over the slip at the right depth with minimal ground speed.

Kev

solentgal
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: twixt Chichester & Pompey

Re: Lee shore.

Post by solentgal » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:37 am

Yes, Kev's spot on for any boat with a foresail......I'm always landing on a lee shore when I come home in our GP as well, usually single handed.......I heave to (backed jib, helm to leeward) drop the main and come in under jib (or bare poles....I don't always use the jib when solo).
Backing on works ok if helm and crew are used to working together, but not so easy to do if a bit blustery....(I watched someone over the weekend demonstrating just how tricky it can be....3 times! :)......you can use this method in single handers too.....well worth practicing backward sailing somewhere out of the way a few times....it's a useful skill and easy enough if not too windy....I often back off a windward shore....it can get crowded at East Head in Chi Harbour, and trying to get off in a SW breeze means either backing off to clear all the warps/kids/canoes etc or heading out under jib and raising the main later.... I always liken it to reversing a trailer with the car... a knack that becomes second nature with practice.
.
Alternatively, for this particular deep water jetty situation, in a single hander, come in at a bit of an angle and just luff up at the last minute, back the main by grabbing the boom to act as a brake (helps to have enough mainsheet so the sail can go slightly forward of the beam) and get the plate out quickly and drift on......the bow will always come back round (if you haven't luffed too hard) due to wind pressure on the rig, and you should arrive neatly sideways.........worth practicing when not too many folk around!

Just seen Kev's last comment as I edit this....I was amazed how well the GP sailed to windward against the tide on just a working jib...... I experimented one day, just out of curiosity.......better than a Wayfarer from memory when I used to teach many years ago.
Sami.

Rupert
Posts: 6224
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Lee shore.

Post by Rupert » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:35 am

Just anchor your yacht well of and come in onboard the tender...

Oh, is this not the Yachting World forum?


Sticking with a jetty, I've always favoured the come in under jib method, which doesn't help in a singlehander... Come in at an angle where the sail can be made to flap, basically. A halyard helps, as you can just come in using the top 1/3 of the sail. Boats like Minisails are, simply, a pain. Slowly in, hop out, capsize with boat on water and sail on bank. You can even remove the mast from the socket when like this, and the boat will then pop upright and sit there happily, rig on the shore.
Rupert

kfz
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:38 pm
Location: Liverpool SC
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by kfz » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:31 pm

solentgal wrote:Yes, Kev's spot on for any boat with a foresail......I'm always landing on a lee shore when I come home in our GP as well, usually single handed.......I heave to (backed jib, helm to leeward) drop the main and come in under jib (or bare poles....I don't always use the jib when solo).
Backing on works ok if helm and crew are used to working together, but not so easy to do if a bit blustery....(I watched someone over the weekend demonstrating just how tricky it can be....3 times! :)......you can use this method in single handers too.....well worth practicing backward sailing somewhere out of the way a few times....it's a useful skill and easy enough if not too windy....I often back off a windward shore....it can get crowded at East Head in Chi Harbour, and trying to get off in a SW breeze means either backing off to clear all the warps/kids/canoes etc or heading out under jib and raising the main later.... I always liken it to reversing a trailer with the car... a knack that becomes second nature with practice.
.
Alternatively, for this particular deep water jetty situation, in a single hander, come in at a bit of an angle and just luff up at the last minute, back the main by grabbing the boom to act as a brake (helps to have enough mainsheet so the sail can go slightly forward of the beam) and get the plate out quickly and drift on......the bow will always come back round (if you haven't luffed too hard) due to wind pressure on the rig, and you should arrive neatly sideways.........worth practicing when not too many folk around!

Just seen Kev's last comment as I edit this....I was amazed how well the GP sailed to windward against the tide on just a working jib...... I experimented one day, just out of curiosity.......better than a Wayfarer from memory when I used to teach many years ago.
Yea. The big genoa goes fine to wind, no doubt cos it's very aft centre of effort, of course us classic guys have the much smaller jib and it not nearly as good, but it still be done thing to Si is to beam reach it first get some speed up and then tighten it up.

At LSC we have a very challenging lee shore, so you need all the help you can get.
A GP with a topping lift and roller genoa is about the best tool you can have short of horsepower.

One of the best recoveries I've seen is our SDI do it in a mirror by drooping the gaff and scandalising the main to get the power needed in the little boat. Make no pretence to be able to manage that.

Kev

User avatar
trebor
Posts: 958
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:53 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: Lee shore.

Post by trebor » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:29 pm

droop the Gaff, scandalise the Main?
just in case, this is a small lake in west brom :roll:
Robert
Minisprint 4230
Tinker Traveller 160
Mirror 61147 Anastasia
http://www.aquabatdinghy.co.uk

Rupert
Posts: 6224
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Lee shore.

Post by Rupert » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 am

Don't worry Rob, I've been sailing for 38 years and have no idea what scandanizing the main means...
Rupert

Post Reply