Launching.

[trebor]

Hi All, The SI at our club is having a rant, about, well everything really, one of the things he is complaining about is getting a push off from the jetty, ie someone pushing you out with the end of your boom, taking in mind I have been a member for almost two years and I have never seen an offshore wind, he does not however suggest a way to launch into the wind from between two tied up boats, any ideas how it should be done, without help ?

[Ed]

Oh, give me a break:

Remedy One:

Wait for a windy day, set your boat up between two others, both painted wooden boats, preferably with shrouds. Send their owners off to hide and watch from a safe place. Then get a good audience to sit on the bank and ask your SI to demonstrate how to do it correctly as per the RYA instructions. Let him do it by himself....and organise large intakes of breath every time he touches one of the surrounding boats. No giggling now.....just sit and learn. There will plenty of time to laugh when you are cleaning up the paintwork on the other boats.

failing that:

Remedy Two:

Tell him to take a long walk on a short pontoon.

I get incensed when instructors do this kind of thing. Maybe some of the SIs (Keith, Nessa, others) we have on the forum, could give their thoughts both on how best to get away from a tight berth on a lee-shore pontoon, but also why 'some' instructors (and it is only 'some') think that having an RYA qualification gives them the right to tell us how to do anything.....without being asked or invited to do so.

Well, that will set the cat amongst the pigeons!

[Rupert]

Seems to me that getting help is the most seamanlike way to do it.

I've been sailing man and boy (if you'll excuse such a phrase - I'm not really from Yorkshire) and will still take any help when it is offered.

When no one is around, I'll use a variety of ways to get off the shore, each slightly worse than the last, just like everyone else.

Your SI needs to get a life. Can't see how it is any of his business, really.

[alan watson]

On a lee shore with boats moored in tight on a pontoon the boom push is an excellent way to get boats safely off in good order; up to wind with speed and control. I'd love to know what's the problem - been doing it for years as an RYA Assistant D.I.; Dinghy and latterly a Senior instructor.

There are a lot of really good RYA coaches and instructors out there who have honed their knowledge through the intensity of squad instruction and racing but there are also a number who walk the walk and talk the talk but don't own boats don't sail much even recreationally let alone improve their skills by racing with others.

That makes me mad.

Cheers
ALAN

[trebor]

SI says this is a "dangerous practice" and crews that cannot leave a lee shore without help, should not be leaving a lee shore !!
Other issues were crews unable to land safely on a lee shore.
Poor quality safety boat work.
Poor awareness of rights of way, causing a lot of avoiding actions by crew with right of way.
To Many instances of rigging needing to be cut (especially club boats) in rescues ? I know to only one instance last year, this was a new member whose foot was trapped in a kicking strap.
Boats badly rigged, and boats setting out then finding they have missed something and requiring a tow back, tying up the safety boat.
Their were a lot of complaints and he put it in writing.
Hi Alan, our SI does not race, neither does he sail very often.

[Paul Rogers]

I was not impressed by the instruction that I have observed him giving, Not sure why he is making these comments which are not accurate from my experience. It is a very friendly club where the racing is competitive but not taken too seriously.
That's why they tolerate our classic/old boats and the old regulars are always willing to give helpful advise.
I can think of other clubs in the area that he may be better suited to.

[Rupert]

If he is in charge of training at the club, he needs to be putting training in place to correct things, especially with safety boat issues. Most clubs these days expect safety boat drivers to have Powerboat2, where you learn to control the boat. But this doesn't teach you about actually rescuing people or boats. Whitefriars run a course purely to give experience of this, as a non RYA course on top of PB2. Sounds like your SI needs to put something in place PDQ. Ours are club funded, on the theory that it benefits the whole club. There is also an RYA safety boat course.

It sounds like you have a lot of people who are fairly new to sailing at the club. Returning to lee shore is something that can be taught and practiced, as is boat rigging. If your SI doesn't want to help, then either get help from more experienced members (almost all will will want to help in some way, I'd expect, even if just showing how to rig a jib properly when they are putting it up anyway) or band together and get a proper RYA coach in for the day. I've met plenty who are happy to do non course structured programmes, concentrating on what you need. If 10 of you got together, it would cost about £20 each, I'd think.

I'm afraid the rigging being cut one really makes me wonder about the ability of the SI at all. OK, maybe a more experienced safetyboat crew could have handled things without cutting anything. But they were in a situation, I assume, where someone was trapped in the water. At that point, the person comes 1st, always. And if the only way they could see to solve the problem quickly was to cut a rope, then the rope should be cut ASAP and the problem solved. Sounds like you might need to get expert coaching in for the powerboat, too. Again, plenty of very experience people around, and the RYA will be able to help. If the club can't afford it, then there may well be funding available. Certainly worth investigating, and I'm sure Nessa will know far more than me on that front.

As for rights of way, a pub rules evening is simple to put on, and can be fun.

[trebor]

Hi Rupert, When I read his report, which was confidential ( that is why I have not copied it onto thread ) I agreed with every point he made, except for the help with launching, I did in fact put this in writing, along with my opinion that he had in fact been guilty of all these things himself, I also suggested he should provide training to combat these issues.
Paul is correct in what he says, the members are very friendly, I have received a lot of coaching since I have been a member, their are several serious Yacht sailors, one took part in the Whitbread, when it was still the Whitbread several times in fact.
Their were several times last year when club used a professional SI.

[Michael Brigg]

Will this help with the rules?

http://www.finckh.org/

(this is a Link on the firefly website.) All you have to do is change the language (top right corner of the page) and it will give you plenty of useful "situations" to problem solve with.

Michael.

[Pat]

The RYA do a safety boat DVD which would make a good re-useable focus for a club social/training session and costs less than a tenner. We've got a copy and often run through it as a refresher before a duty.
They also do rules talks.
You will have an area RYA Development Officer who can help with lots of things if you get in touch with them - ours until recently was one of our own club members!

[Nessa]

I am Principal at Hunts, and so responsible for all training activities. What members do in their own time when casual sailing or racing is officially none of my business. Sometimes I am grateful for this lack of responsibility! That's not to say I won't step in to help or advise if wanted, and as a Committee member I can stop a boat going afloat if I think it is not seaworthy (and yes I have done this) but that is another matter, nothing to do with being an SI. But likewise I do have to stand by and watch while some go afloat in conditions are often beyond their capabilities. It's a fine line.

With regard to the lee shore launching, there is only one official description in the RYA bible, which is of a nice shore line where you can stand in the water, albeing quite deep. A bit of a cop out, nothing like as difficult as described here. I'm not going to give an outline of how it should be done, that would be stupid without seeing the lake, the jetty, the craft etc. It strikes me that the safest way for persons and property is to have help, and your SI should be pleased to be at a club where people do help each other. Doing it any other way would either involve much faffage with boat hooks, fenders etc, with the possibility of trapped fingers etc. Not good.

It sounds to me like your SI knows his inspection is due soon and is having a wobbly. Ask for some seamanship training, that should sort him/her out.

[trebor]

Thanks for replies.
Hi Nessa, We launch from the Dam inner wall, so the water is deep, the two slipways will drop you in deep water if you stray to far either side or off the ends.

[Rupert]

I can stop a boat going afloat if I think it is not seaworthy (and yes I have done this)

Amazing any boat made it out at the cvrda nats, then!

[Nessa]

you would not believe what I have seen.....well, you probably would actually. The worst was an enterprise with the rig so slack it would fall down at the first puff of wind.

I've also seen some really impressive 'buoyancy aids' and amazingly, you can often see such examples for sale on the bay.

[chris]

Yes, I've seen a ent without a kicker and the boom waving up and down all over the place. I suggest he had forgotten the kicker and was asked whats that for then?
I've also seen at another club I was sailing at a merlin capsized and within two seconds three buoyancy bags floated away down stream on their own.