The CVRDA

I sawthe E bay photos and it seems the rudder/ tiller is a IYE fitting (often seen on 20 years fireballs)...
Just as good as the original headstocks weer made of poorly cast aluminium.

Cast alloy rudder headstocks on 420 (except for the very first ones , made of riveted shet auminium) were good , except for he epoxy coating that tended topeel when aluminium oxide developped underneath, and by then it was time to peel completely the coating and paint them with zinc chromate primer (for outboards engines, ) plus white or blac finish (outboard propellors spray cans ) ...but on 445 it was a different story, the metal tended to break (the rudder blade is rather big, compared to the Laser smallish one ).

On the Laser you have to steer with lateral balance, because the rudder "stalls" easily , but on 445 the big rudder blade meant the boat remained controllable with rudder only (even when trapezing with lots of wind and kite out)...
but only until the rudderstock broke in bits, wihich happened quite a fewtimes on the fleet of 445 we used as advanced trainers in our sailing school in the mid 70's

Gouteron changed the mould twice (it was also used for the more powerful 4,85, the only difference being that on the 485 the tiller went through a window in the transom - 470 Fashion-, but still a riveted rudderstock (if not corroded around the rivets) is Waaay better .

Incidentally i have two 445 rudderstocks for sale (it is one of the ways we feed the instructor's bar stock) if anyone is interested

As for the mast gate, the plastic one was bendy indeed ...
The problem was later cured by adopting a much stronger and heavier stainless tube contraption
(same thing existed on MK 2 Surf"s, La prairie Strales , last Flibustiers by Bioré marine and on later versions of the Gouteron 485.... the idea was probably borrowed from the period 505's ) the mast gate arrangement was sometimes connected to the chainplates to prevent the boat "narrowing" under rig tension .

http://www.dagwelan.com/upload/photo0109.jpg

If somebody around is equipped with a inert gas arc welder , surplus cheap marine stainless steel tube and plenty of time, and the boat is otherwise sound, why not , but it is a bit of a job.

On the orther hand the traveller bar is not very useful (if you fit a proper 6/1 vang) and convering to a transom main (laser style) would make a remakably uncluttered cockpit.

You can find pics of unrestored 445 on NORD VOILE Website (this guy isn't a real boat enhusiast but on the plus side he dosn'yt tinkes with the boats so no carefully concealed horrors ) and he has lots of secon hand equipment (and possibly sails.

http://www.nordvoile.com/default_zone/f ... ge-29.html

On the other hand DA GWELAN does restore his boats , but he seems to do it with the required skill and has good reputation (though did not test personally)
http://www.dagwelan.com/deriveur-a-vendre.php


(contrary to BOATIQUE, near Paris, who has also lots of second hand bits and sails but has a very chequered reputation among dinghy enthusiasts back here...and for this one i have direct personal -and bad - experience).

http://www.boatique.fr/

A last possible source of sound second hand 445 sails is SIRENA in La Baule.

http://www.sirena-voile.com/fr/accueil.html

Most 445 sails were by DEME , A still existent sail loft in Le Croisic (the Demé Logo is a double arrow head

http://www.deme-voiles.fr/pages/accueil.asp

They certainly have the original sail templates

It was the mast step, a weak spot from what I have read but apart from the different gel coat colour as good as new (or better).
Will try to get you a few pictures of sails etc. with dimensions over the weekend, any requests?

the luff length of the main would be really handy, before I attack the phantom sail, and the dimensions of the jib too. After that any pictures of any alterations that have worked would be cool. At the moment I'm leaving it much as it was, apart from replacing parts that no longer work. Once I have an idea of how it sails I might start altering stuff.

thanks very much!

nessa

http://445et485.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13#13

This link gives the original sails measurements (2 upper pictures) from the ex class association and the last one is the diagram of recently made sails by Mr CHEVALIER a long time sailmaker, who made new sails for a restored 445, but with a slightly shorter mast than the original (probably from a 420)...nobody is perfect so masurments are in metric units...

And in case you intend to race the 445 on handicap system..

The 445 was origuinally considered somewhat faster than the 420 and used to have a rating between the 420 and 470 nowdays it is quite unfair because development and competitive racing has long since ceased on the 445 .

A 445, even if restored is no match for a brand new ZIGELMEYER 420 with epoxy sandwich foils FRP hull, and brand new sails by Morth or Toni Tio.

For Handicap racing the french federation OSIRIS system (mostly baser on PY british system, but including french made dinghies ) puts the 445 on par with the 420...which is just as fair because in local club handicap racing a 445 out from long time storage and with original DEME sails will most probably pitted against a somewhat more recent 420 reequipped with ex racer Sails

http://www.ffvoile.net/ffv/web/pratique ... atings.asp

So, I now have an ancient solo sail (red, number 206) and a topper sport 16 mainsail lined up for this according to wind conditions. The M14 jib fits reasonably well, though I may experiment with others after the initial sea trials. I also have an unknown spinny (possibly ff) so it could all be very interesting. Or the mast will break.

This had it's maiden voyage today, sailed by notorious Steve and another lad, and it performed pretty well. It is a real Frankensteinian creation: fully battened topper sport 16 mainsail (reefed to fit the mast) mirror 14 jib, phantom boom, ff spinny (not yet tried) but the lads loved it.

I dont know what the sport 16 boat exactly looks like but i recovered two almost new Sport 16 mains from a Mark Warner club in Corsica andhad them recut to fit a Laser 2 mast (the shortened mast version called Laser 2 fun).

my sailmaker and he tried to reboost the boat by putting two big forced battens and an almost square top (plus a recut fireball jib) works well except that

1 ° The top battens are hard to flip inlight wind after tacking
2 °On the last day of the European Laser Masters after the racing was cancelled (Mistral blowing at 30 kts and the guy from rooster sailing doing a bit of show off) an irish competitor borrowed the boat and an irish girl (sailing instructor and bar attendant at our club)....guess he wanted to impress but he only succeeded in breaking the mast in a botched gybe)...

Fortunately i had some bits of Laser 2 tubes left in a corner and succeded in cobbling another mast out of these after using a bucketful of rivets and a winsurf aluminium mast as inner sleeve

The topper sport 16 is no longer made....says it all really. But the sail looks okay on the boat. I want to get it cut to size, but when I contacted my most local sail maker he was more interested in making new sails than tailoring.....not what I want (can afford) at all.

My M14 spinny is a tad too big, plus I don't want to damage it, so I'm looking for a 420/470/laser2 kite instead.

The hull is really heavy. Presumably this is because it is full of rotten wood?

The heavy hull is the cloud of the otherwise silver lining , the self bailing double bottom.

In the mid sixties FRP was unknown so deck and hull were made of monolithic GRP plus a few wooden stringers and GRP omega type stringers.

Even with design tricks like the centre "spine" the double bottom had to be made thick and heavy to stand the pressure of feet treading in it .

The contemporary MK 2 Surf by La Prairie had a "corugated" double bottom (much like the citroen 2CV engine cover) to stiffen it while keeping it tolerably light

The 420 on the other hand was remarkably light thanks to the single hull and the non existent fore peak and transom tanks.

The best kite for the 445 would be from a 470 it is quite the same size (the 420 spinnaker, was junior only at first (like the trapeze) and thus it was small.)

The 445 interest as opposed to the420 is its planing ability downwind, best exploited with a big kite...

Good , Well cut 470 kites are easily found from ex olympic campaigners and are not too expensive.