IC 41

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davidh
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IC 41

Post by davidh » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:08 pm

Ed!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't realise that your IC was so famous.... I've just been looking at the pictures of it in David Chivers book!! Wah indeed!

Have you seen the shots and read the detailed description. Stress loaded hull, self tacking jibs and a curved seat.....all back in 1952.

Well done Dave - just been reading it again and it's a cracker!!

D
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Ed
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Re: IC 41

Post by Ed » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:13 pm

Hi David,

Did I know the history of Conquest.....Yes, I guess so!

Did I know she was famous? well again I always reckoned she was famous to those who knew their IC history!

She really does have a very interesting part to play in the IC class history, along with her predecessor - Quest, being the first chine-hulled ICs and of course there were not that many any way.

It is pretty well documented in Andrew Eastwood's history of the IC (yes - Neil I do still have copy....will bring up to Lake next time I come up - I promise) and Andrew wrote a fair bit about it at the time he did re-build. Also a bit about it in Austin Farrar's article about the evolution of the IC written in Dec16 1994 issue.

But....no....I have not read any of David's book (and would love to) especially any of it pertaining to Conquest.

There was always the story that the lines of Conquest were used as the starting point for the lines of the next boat Holt designed....the Hornet.

Anyway.....all of the above may slightly explain my reluctance to push her very hard at Netley last year. As it was I opened up something and now have a leak that I never had before.... :-(

I have just written elsewhere about the 'winning' vs 'playing' argument with CVRDA racing and it really is very apparent with these old and valuable boats. Just how hard do you want to push them? Racing hard? or Playing hard?

I don't think I would of bought Conquest....just because of this quandary. Conquest was loaned/given to me by the IC class to look after.

I really enjoy sailing her, but it is a slightly uneasy ownership. I felt exactly the same in the 5-6 years I owned Iska Merlin 6. I am heavy...quite competitive and tend to push boats quite hard. I was always terrified that I was going to break Iska and was so relieved to pass her onto Chris who looks after her in a way that I do not really feel I was able to.

It is the same with Conquest. Those decks are simply 4mm ply over suspended frames!!! I can't really walk on her! A heavy knee would most probably go through the deck, so I have to very carefully shuffle my bum across, which is neither elegant nor very effective. It does not help that she is quite a bit harder (more tender) than a modern Nethercott to sail.

And to come back to recent topics on other threads....how do you try and give a reasonable or fair handicap to a boat (Like Iska and Conquest) that you really have to be quite careful with. Just when Conquest starts to get quite fast.....I have to start really thinking about sailing her as 'slowly' as possible just to keep her safe. This is not conducive to fast sailing and as I said in other thread, you really would not choose her to try and win a race!

Anyway,

If Dave C has any other history on Conquest, would love to read it.

Especially.....any more photos of Conquest using a fully battened main.

I know that she shared one with Eastwind and have a photo, but Eastwind I think used it most.

I have been thinking about making a fully battened main for Conquest, rather than the soft main that was more commonly used, but would love some more ideas about cut etc

the photo I have of Conquest with fully battened main is from the above mentioned article by Farrar, so I presume is quite likely to be from Farrar's collection.

Talking of books.....

Have you read Chris247's book on dinghy development?

A good read.

Did it ever get to print?

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

davidh
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Re: IC 41

Post by davidh » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:17 pm

Ed,

in the DC book (an excellentread by te way) Ic 41 is shown as 'Eastwind', not Conquest!

D
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Re: IC 41

Post by Ed » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:22 pm

I realise I most probably shouldn't....

but here is a copy of the photo from Yachts and Yachting.
hayling-50s.jpg
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This shows Conquest in the Foreground with fully battened main and Eastwind upwind and ahead.

Dave C....if there are any other photos in this series of Conquest, would love to see them

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

DavidC
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Re: IC 41

Post by DavidC » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:30 pm

Hi Ed,

The book is available should anyone want one, from me, the publisher (Bosun Books) or ordered through any bookshop.

I am certain I will have more photos. I have several hundred to slowly sort through and scan but it will get done eventually.....

:?

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Re: IC 41

Post by Ed » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:39 am

Ah, yes, can understand the confusion over sail numbers!!

Conquest and Eastwind appeared to have shared sails at various times in their lives.

Farrar says:

"Their sail plans were identical and each boat had her own soft mainsail, while they shared a fully battened one at first, and later had one each"

But I have only seen one photo of Conquest K41 with the fully battened main (can't see the sail number) whereas in most photos she appears to have the soft sails with K41 on.

To confuse - at least one of the photos that I have seen of Eastwind show her also wearing sails with K41 on them.

The IC register that I have shows Conquest as K41 and Eastwind as K42.....but then has a not saying "number to be confirmed" and I note that K40 is 'unknown' as well so we might have to do some more research about the number for Eastwind.

Either way, I am pretty sure that Conquest was K41 as I have a copy of the original measurement form from 1954, when in the ownership of Graham Goodson (who was selected to race the 1952 worlds in Eastwind, but fell out to illness).

Neil may well have a better record of early register numbers - so will see if he has any thoughts.
eastwind.jpg
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Of course, now I have to come to terms with the fact that all your compliments were most probably about the 'beautiful' Eastwind rather than the 'mean'n'fast' Conquest!

There is no doubt that although the chined Holt hull was considered faster than Eastwind, it was not very liked by the class association due to it being rather harder to sail and although the construction was very modern and light at the time, I suspect there was the worry (like the advent of the Fairey Mouldies) that the cheaper construction might bring the 'wrong' people into the class. And the chined boats were just too fast, outclassing all the other more expensive boats, which lead eventually to them being outlawed in 1972. It was quite light though! as it originally weighed in at 144lbs with a weighted board of 54lbs, which was added to make it easier to sail. The canoe later reverted to a mahogany board, which it now has.

Anyway....any more thoughts you have about how 'famous' 'Conquest' was would of course make me purr all the more....but if it is Eastwind......well then....keep stum ;-)

As for the book Dave C.....would love to buy it....but perilously broke at moment, so may have to wait until it gets in my local library ;-)
And now not sure whether it is Conquest or Eastwind that is mentioned....but rather suspect it is Eastwind as that is the Austin Farrar boat.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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