Help? Uknown Dinghy from San Franisco, CA

[Windchaser]

The gentleman who gave this boat to me said it was a Flying Dutchman from San Francisco. His brother started the restoration some 30 years ago and it sat in storage for the last 20. The plates on the trailer were last register in 1972! I know it is not a FD, but what it is remains a mystery.

Some facts: LOA is 17'2". The beam is 5'3". Cockpit is 7'4" long. Mast is 23'6". Boom is 9'. The keel is damn heavy. Feels like cast iron. The sails have no logo, only an F-2. The sailmaker (Peter Sutter) past away in 1996 and his loft closed in 2002.

Many thought it was an X-boat, but it is 14" to long and 10" to narrow. I think the scarab beetle on the transom was personal, not part of the class insignia.

Any ideas? I've search every internet dinghy database I can find and I'm still not finding it.

[Ancient Geek]

A SNIPE?

[Nigel]

Is there a different Snipe in the US? The one I am familiar with is 15' 6".

The wooden mast must date it a little. I did think UK Javelin but it is a few inches too short

[Windchaser]

Nope, not a Snipe. I'm too long

[Nessa]

The distinguishing feature seems to be the narrow beam - I've searched my PB, by everything that length is wider.

[Rupert]

I've drawn a blank - my suggestion would be to try the wooden boat magazine forum, as the boat certainly looks american in origin.

[Rod]

Aha! a Yankee-centric question. Most likely a National One Design, designed by William Crosby, who also designed the International Snipe (hence the Snipe lookalike sections in the pictures). The Snipe was designed in 1931, the NOD in 1936. Obviously the NOD never came close to the popularity of the Snipe but can be found in numbers on the Western Shore of Michigan (around Leland Mich) with other fleets scattered about the Midwest.

As you can see at the Website below, the NOD has a high aspect rig, no spinnaker and sports a trapeze;

http://www.nodra.com/

[Windchaser]

I looked at the NOD. Everything about it looks spot on except for the rudder. The NOD had a post type rather than a transom mounted . . . however, mine could have been modified. Thanks everyone for the help.

[Rupert]

Isn't the NOD the same boat as the Dolphin over here? I confess I didn't see the connection when looking at the pictures to the Dolphins we have had at cvrda meetings, but then they weren't plywood, which can make a boat look different.

[alan williams]

Hi Guys Definately not an NOD I've just broken one up. Stem is wrong and the shape of the hull at the transom is far to veed NOD/Dolphin is very flat in this area. Also the rudder in the photograph looks as if it is transom hung . The NOD 's rudder is mounted forward of the transom.
Al Finn 424 etc.

[LASERTOURIST]

Could it be a boat from a restricted class like the old frech restricted caneton (restricted classes are cmmon in UK, but extinct in France and for US i dn't know...)
I would have said hat it had something in common with the snipe , too , but much racier and the centreboard is pivoting, not dagger.
The kind of traveller for the mainsheet is quite old style late forties early fifties and the outboard engine stand is a somewhat crude ddition (the owner grew old and convered to fishing with a small outboard engine , perhaps???) nice boat , deserving restoration anyway

[LASERTOURIST]

Interestingly the dimesions of the mystery boat are "almost" in the good bracket for the old "development /restricted caneton" , caneton was 5,05 M X 1, 40 so it is only 11 Cm too long
and 19 cm too wide, and many canetons were built by amateurs with some biggish inaccuracies during the 40's (The caneton was one design in the 30's one design on Victor Brix Plans, then restricted/development , then engenedered two one design boats (fast and athletic Caneton 505 by John Westell, shortened Coronet, and quiet caneton 57 by Cornu) and finally Caneton strale of italian design.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caneton_(bateau)

Anyway the transom seems too raked (10° max for caneton) but there still is some likeliness

[keithr]

I am sure I sailed something similar when in Aberdovey, which was left at the boatyard and we cobbled it back together.

Similar to f/ball rig with a trapeze, as I recall overcanvassed but great on a 3 sail reach.

Very heavy if I remember, we did have a class name for it but it was over 20yrs ago and I have forgotten.

Keith

[LASERTOURIST]

I'm not an expert in oldstyle canetons, i saw a few wrecks of oldstyle Brixes and restricted canetons in my youth , along with a few, then outdated GRP / Tergal sails caneton 57 y Matonnat ,and recently a few piously restored antiquity canetons...after all it was more y father's time, i'm only 52 but , after some research it sort of fits with restricted canetons:

1,40 was minimum widh, and 10° was minimum transomrake, so amateur restrited canetons could be more veed, wider and with more transom rake.

but both on the wikipedia page an the ASPROCA class website ( once strong ASPROCA died after the end of production of the StraleST16 that was superseded by he 470, but it has recenly been revived as a vintage boat enthusiasts club) boats looking like the mysterious US boat are shown and it is said that resticted canetons (often amateur built) were somewhat out of dimensions

http://asproca.synthasite.com/desc_cane ... trictions-

1947.phphttp://www.pbase.com/beligou/le_caneton


and these gorgeous period photos to admire the boat's (???) curves


http://asproca.synthasite.com/muids.php

Try to convert Metres in imperial measures to see if it cliks....

Personally it seems unlikely that a caneton would have been exported in the US west coast but after all the 420 thrived inthe US...and the F2 number in the sail might be a nationality letter ( well before the 3 lettres system)