Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

an area to discuss dinghy developments
User avatar
Ed
Site Admin
Posts: 3485
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Plymouth
Contact:

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Ed » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:17 pm

I notice the specification mentions Bermabright buoyancy tanks....

Do you still have them?

Don't seem to many of them still about.

Merlin 6 Iska has them....or were they copper?? .but can't think of many others.

Cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

ALIBONE
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by ALIBONE » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:27 am

Just a few photos to keep you going.If a boat like this has been out of the water for say six years,do you think there will be problems when launched?,apart from the obvious champangne intake from the participants.
boat_france_002.JPG
(90.8 KiB) Downloaded 251 times
Attachments
boat_2_014.JPG
(70.95 KiB) Downloaded 251 times
boat_france_005.JPG
(85.6 KiB) Downloaded 251 times

Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Michael Brigg » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:29 am

Allibone said:-
If a boat like this has been out of the water for say six years,do you think there will be problems when launched?
What a beauty! Apart from keeping the admiring crowds away, you may well find you are disappointed by the amount of water that comes in!

This is normal and it takes about 1-2 weeks for the boat to "take up." Usually easy enough to keep up with using a large sponge and bucket but best not to keep the boat overnight on a deep water mooring during this stage of the launch! :oops:

After a couple of weeks you will find she is tight as a drum.

Some people advocate using a sealant such as "Sikaflex" to avoid this, but I have heard others say this is messy and difficult to remove if you want to repaint. I suppose it depends if you are "dry sailing" the boat from a launching trolly or keeping her on a mooring in which case you will have all the fun of Scrubbing and antifouling to keep you occupied! :evil:

When my 14ft clinker was in regular use we found a small manual bilge pump fitted to hoses under the floor boards was invaluable. If you keep the output from this free you can use it with a thumb over the end and it makes a fantastically effective weapon for repelling boarders during those beach day waterfights! :lol:
Michael Brigg

ALIBONE
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by ALIBONE » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:14 pm

Thanks Michael,
Many moons ago i painted a large yacht for a person in Southampton, not knowing that it had been out of the water for a few years.Well it sank and the guy was very upset.That was a carvel built boat i imagine that clinker having no chaulking will take time to tighten up.
This sounds like sun shorts and plenty of time to enjoy the process work.

User avatar
Ed
Site Admin
Posts: 3485
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Plymouth
Contact:

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Ed » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:36 pm

This has come up before, so will be in the archives.

If it is bad, you will be able to tell simply by looking, especially if you get inside with boat the wrong way up as you will see the light coming in.

It is amazing how big a gap will close up with ease.....given time. But you might be surprised by how long it takes.

When I first got Iska, she had been out of the water for a long long time and stored in the roof of boat house at UTSC. She was really really dried out. When I picked her up I was sceptical that she would ever take up enough to be anywhere close to watertight. I had gaps an 1/8in wide in places, which I could see right through. I bought her off Laurie Smart and I asked him about this and he told me to sink her for a while and she would be OK.

I did as suggested for a w/end in Roadford Lake. Then emptied her and still leaked like a sieve. I rang up Laurie to say...."that didn't work!" He asked me how long I had left her to take up. When I said 2 whole days.....he said....it may take 2 whole weeks, which it did very nearly. But it did take up in the end.

I know that Chris did some work on Iska that really helped, which was to really clean up between the lands, as the problem is that as the wood expands, it is damaged by expanding over any crap that is in there. Remove it and the wood can expand properly....but not get damaged in the process.

At this stage I did ask Dave Cockwell (boat-builder now down in Falmouth - then in Bristol) for any ideas on boats that were being slow to take up.

I liked his recommendation, which was: Dont' what ever you do not use any artificial guk....or sealant but you can use Tallow to fill holes as it seals well, moves as wood expands and gets eaten by the fish. I used this on any stubborn gaps on Iska. Whether it helped I am not sure......but she didn't leak that much.

There is one big question for me though.....

you have a boat that has been off the water for long time and the wood has really shrunk. You have to remove and replace varnish......but you will also need to soak or sink boat to get it to take up...

Do you:

A) Strip boat, sink it to let it take up and then bring out....dry down and varnish.

or

B) Strip boat, varnish and then sink to take up.

A has the advantage of presumably allowing boat to take up quickly and avoids getting too much varnish/crap between lands. But you have to let her take up with no protection on boat and you are possibly working on (varnishing at least) damp wood.

B has advantage of getting all work done on dry boat, but you may end up with lots of varnish and stuff in lands.....but this 'may' help with sealing them

I think in theory I would veer towards 'A', but in practice have normally done something much closer to 'B'

any thoughts

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:09 pm

You'll hardly be surprised I have a few! (Thoughts that is.).
It is not cheap, but you only do it once:- To strip it right down to the bare wood (Walnut Shells and an hour or two, or if you must a scraper or two or three maybe four and hours and hours of patient work later.) Replace any rot or damage. Then seal the wood behind epoxy, fill the gaps with epoxy if there are any that the initial coating does not close (There may be a few in a clinker dinghy.) Slaver the thing inside and out with the aformentioned epoxy and Robert will be your fathers' brother it will be stiffer, far stronger and outlast you. In most One Designs it will be as fast or faster than the more modern ones, especially if you take the trouble to longboard the hull.
But if like many the joy is constant maintainance well into the sailing season then go the old fashioned way. I am a total believer in keeping old boats racing, but no luddite when it comes to materials. I have just been present at the begining of the revoicing of a famous organ and was amazed the modern stuff (Epoxy, titanium, lead etc.,) the chaps use and full of admiration for their craftsmanship and accurate ears. So I cannot see anything wrong except initial cost with using what, surely, a boatbuilder uses today.
Please chaps no jokes about organs!
Simples.

roger
Posts: 3026
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: Frome Somerset UK

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by roger » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:38 pm

Ancient Geek wrote: Then seal the wood behind epoxy, !
NO NO NO
on a boat like Iska with the history and originality that she has please (and I know Chris wont) dont seal with epoxy.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:55 pm

With the great respect, Iskia is a loveingly and skillfully restored boat kept as near to original as can be, however this means there are a number of occasions when she cannot go to sea with her more sturdy relations.
I depends, I guess on your beliefs, and where you get your kicks, for myself I think it better if boats are within reason made as they would be if they had been in constant use for the purpose they were designed for. That is racing.
W O Bentley & Rolls Royce for instance did not hesitate to retrofit self starters when they came along.
We can agree to differ.
Simples.

User avatar
Ed
Site Admin
Posts: 3485
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Plymouth
Contact:

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Ed » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:47 am

Isn't there room for both approaches?

I used to own Iska......and was quite certain that she should remain as original as possible, even if that meant sitting on the shore avoiding testing conditions. She is a wonderful bit of our maritime heritage and certainly best left that way.

But in the end that was why I wanted to find a better home for her.

For me, I felt my personal approach to sailing was far closer to AGs.

I want to sail an old boat that is made as strong and efficient as I can make it. I am heavy, sail hard and like pushing the boat a bit. Iska just did not fit in with my model of what I wanted out of a classic dinghy, because I was so scared of breaking her all the time. Of course I now have the same kind of predicament with Conquest my 1952 Canoe....but there you go.

I have nothing against epoxying some boats......just not others!

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:09 am

Ed,
For me the clue is in the title; Classic, vintage RACING Dinghy Association.
I agree with museum quality, but in a museum, but even they cheat a bit you know!
But as you say there are room for two or probably a lot more approached to this wonderful sport.
I just think would be a shame to watch the others go racing.
Simples.

Rupert
Posts: 6254
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by Rupert » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:02 pm

I've no objection to epoxy where epoxy will work, but I'm not convinced that that is on an old clinker boat. The ribbed construction, lands between planks and the like mean it is going to be impossible to coat every surface with epoxy. Therefore water will be able to get into the structure, and therefore it will get trapped behind the epoxy, making it worse than useless. The boat might get a few years of use in its new form, and if it was that or rot, so be it. But there is no reason, if kept as was, a boat like Iska or the ones discussed on here shouldn't be sailing in another 60 years.
Rupert

simon-t
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:28 am

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by simon-t » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:48 pm

Ed, you asked about Birmabright tanks. If my boat ever had them they are not around any more.

Not all the Firecrests were fitted with them as far as I know.

I'm flying back to the UK in 12 hours and will collect my boat next week.

It's a hugely exciting moment after 18 months of delays with the restoration.

Not sure I will actually get her on the water though.

That may have to wait until the spring. Boo hiss.

Simon.

ALIBONE
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Firecrest 15 - Which Class?

Post by ALIBONE » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Thanks for all the good advice given .I decided not to visit the above boat but anyone intrested i can add another ten photos. As i mentioned in my other subject Mahogany yacht,I am on to something with a little more work for the winter months.I may have found something and will post info when concluded.

Post Reply