Help. please - Intl.14

an area to discuss dinghy developments
nick clibborn
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Post by nick clibborn » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:47 pm

Have ventured back in 'woodyism', having acquired an old (1964) International 14 - Shdi design. Will be working on it over the next few weeks/months, but I need a spinnaker pole. Has anyone got any information anywhere as to how long the pole would be ?

Any help appreciated.

Nick

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:18 pm

Welcome to 14 ownership!

have you told the classic 14 guys yet...they will be thrilled. lots of action at moment with the classic 14s. get hold of their mag - called 'Tittle Tattle' for more info. If you don't have I will email.


have the Int 14 history....so will check and get back to you.

there were many changes of rule though....any time what date you want it correct for?

if memory serves....it ain't that long...although kite is massive.

talk later

eib
Ed Bremner
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IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
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nick clibborn
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Post by nick clibborn » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:08 pm

Ed,

Have been trying to join the Int.14 association, but for some reason their on-line application form won't work, so if you'd e-mail me a Tittle-Tattle I'd be grateful.

As to date to make it correct for. I guess it would be best to stert at what it would have been in 1964. I know there was a rule change raising the height of the spinnaker head on the mast, but I don't think this has happened on this boat.

All the best


Nick

nick clibborn
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Post by nick clibborn » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:33 pm

Ed

Stupidly I forgot my e-mail address:

nick-carol@alderwey.freeserve.co.uk

Many thanks

Nick

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:20 pm

sorry being slow......inlaws resident....so bit busy to dig out dinghy books....but will try later tonight

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:46 am

Grrrrrr......

just wrote answer and then lost it!!!!


My Int 14 book has only got rules for 1929, 1970, and 1989. Not sure if these were only ones or if there were others.

1929 doesn't have anything relevant. 1989 again does not really help.

1970 rules say:

"The overall length of the Spinnaker boom must not exceed 125 per cent of the dimension J (base of the foretriangle) i.e. J x 1.25. This spinnaker boom shall not be used as a bowsprit or when sailing close-hauled"

J is measured from the line of forestay where it bisects horizontal line across gunwhales to front edge of mast.

For contact with the Classic and Vintage 14s try Dick Johnson on:

dick<spam>.johnson@Volvooceanrace.org

or

dick<spam>@airwavestv.com

of course remove the <spam>

I have put the Tittle Tattles up on the cvrda website at:

http://www.cvrda.org/classes/i14/tittle1.pdf

http://www.cvrda.org/classes/i14/tittle2.pdf

http://www.cvrda.org/classes/i14/tittle3.pdf


hope they are working.....if not ask me again and I will check. When I checked, they did not work at first.....but then seemed to be ok...note use all lowercase.

talk later

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

JimC
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Post by JimC » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:34 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
1970 rules say:
"The overall length of the Spinnaker boom must not exceed 125 per cent of the dimension J (base of the foretriangle) i.e. J x 1.25. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

That sounds about right: they were always silly short things until they went to sprit kites.

Chris 249
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Post by Chris 249 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:59 am

Shdi's design comments and plans are in an old Yachting World (I think...possibly Y&Y). The comments indicate that because the mast was further aft the spinnaker pole was longer, which confirms that it was linked to the J at that time.

Michael Brigg
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What have I got?

Post by Michael Brigg » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:59 pm

I have an old Clinker 14 foot dinghy. I have taken the quarter decking off to reveal an open racing dinghy complete with nicely rounded quarter knees and bowhook. In looks I was convinced initially that she was a Norfolk OD. but she has too many strakes (11, plus the garboard, I think a NOD has 10) and the frames are a little to close framed. (About every 4inches) although they are to widely spaced for an Uffa fox design unless his Clinker boats were not as closely spaced as a Carvel built design.
My grandfather aquired the boat possibly in Norfolk in the early or mid 1930's possibly 2nd hand and she has always been called "Blue Moon".
I am still hoping that she is a very early National 14 perhaps from the Norfolk conference although given her age I believe she could also be a true International 14!
Her shape is almost identical to an albacore or a redwing so I suspect she could be Uffa Fox inspired, Perhaps a copy from a Norfolk boatyard. There are no identifying builders marks. The mast gate forms a tabernackle suggesting a setup for The Broads, and My uncle recalls that she originally carried Bamboo spars. I woudnt put it past Herbert Woods to have rustled her up as a quick Copy as it seems he stole a march on Uffa Fox when he got his own design in quickly for the original NOD prototypes!
Jamie Campbell at ISCA has suggested (rather disappointingly) that my boat might be a "Still-born One design" as the angle of Bow entry is not vertical enough for a 14, but Im not convinced. I got hold of some old clinker 14 photos from Tommy Vaughan, the class historian and I thought my boat was a prety good match.
I was both excited and surprised to discover that there was indeed an International 14 named "Blue Moon" sail No K70. I was disapointed however to discover that someone else seems to be claiming to own this hull although they also own a Redwing and my boat was extensively sailed in Cornwall so there might be a connection! The thread on this is in the "Tittle Tattle" link Issue 3 Oct 2004.
My Blue moon is Mahogony on oak (I think) and is in really excellent condition so far as I can tell with only a few bits of soft wood around the stem. The mahogony (being best quality non replaceable rainforest quality, there being no qualms about such things when she was built) is almost good as new.
Blue Moon raced at St Mawes SC mostly in the Menagerie class in the immediate Post war years. The family of Sir Geoffrey Bird also owned a Pilot Cutter, "Blue Goose. and a motor yacht, "Blue Vision." and had one of a notable boat building family in their employ, Jimmy Green.
That is all I know about my boats history. My parents are sadly unable to recall any imformation about her.
I will try to post some pictures if I can find out how to get them on a web hosting set up.
Any Ideas about the boat??
Michael Brigg.
Michael Brigg

davidh
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Post by davidh » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:24 am

Michael,

that is some story - is there any chance of a picture?

I notice that there is a NOD (possibly) on ebay right now.

And...what are the spars like? Is the rig bermudan or gaff?

First Mark with the Dart dinghy and now this - things are really looking to be on the 'UP' as regards the identification and saving of real historical 'gems'!

Where is the boat now Michael - have you thought about recording the work you're doing on it?

David
David H

Garry R

Post by Garry R » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:00 am

And this looks interesting - some nice pictures too - whoever it is knows how to get a good advert together.

http://www.boatsandoutboards.com/view/F162688

Michael Brigg
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Post by Michael Brigg » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:04 am

Hi David,
Blue Moon is presently with Haines Boatyard in Itchenor. She is in dry storage at their Lippering Farm facility, awaiting decisions as to how best to manage her restoration. This is why I am keen to get as accurate an ID as I can.
An alternative is to just sail her as found. A pedigree racing dinghy put out to grass as a family boat. Most of my memory of her is with a small outboard on the back pottering along the Thames at Runneymede. The addition of (Very) strong quarter decking has certainly helped to preserve the hull shape and with this in mind I would plan to have some strengthening arrangement built into her to allow a reasonably robust use.
She has an old 14 mast with her now with 3 sets of diamond crosstrees! Its not original howeverr and my uncle clearly recalls that she had a Bamboo mast. The boom may be original though and is a broad rectangular strure, about 9-10 fet length, stern sheeted and has a slot to take a sail foot.
The plate is Heavy iron, about 80lbs, typical of it's age with a good size leaver at its top end
I will certainly try to get some pictures on when I work out the technology!
As a busy GP (In spite of what government spin says we are) I havent the time to do my own restoration but I am prepared to spend a little money and will be keeping a careful record of any work. Haines boatyard are quite keen to enter the renovation and training market and will I am sure be very helpful.
I have just spent a Kings ransom on my Firefly F3184 and Blue Moon may take a bit more. I am banned from aquiring any new old boats until all my other old boats are sold (fat chance) or in full working order!
Michael Brigg.
Michael Brigg

davidh
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Post by davidh » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:32 am

Gary,

despite being rigged out with Firefly sails (oh the insult!) this does look nice - I wondered for a while if it was actually an International 12. Come in please Steve out on Lac Leman - the CVRDA expert on this class - how close are we to identifying thie boat that Gary has sent the link to?

Michael - when are you next going down to the boat? I'd be happy to meet up with you there - or I can pop down at some point when it is okay with the boatyard and I'll take some pics.

What with Larks, now the Phantoms, looking to run their own 'classic' wings' one can only hope that the more enlightened movement away from the platci fantastics is gaining pace.

But - boats like the Dart Dinghy and the old Int 14 will always be - rightly- the real gems of the dinghy history story.

David
David H

Michael Brigg
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Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:03 pm

This thread seems to be getting a bit crowded and Ive rather gone off the original subject of Spinaker poles. I thought it will be easier if I move all my chat about Blue Moon to a new thead. "MY 14 FOOT DINGHY "BLUE MOON."
I'll try to get some pictures posted up there as well.
Bye for now
Michael
Michael Brigg

Michael Brigg
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Post by Michael Brigg » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:16 am

Garry,
What a storming lille boat! An absolute terrier I would say. Was there such a thing as a "Chichester One Design?" It doesn't look one bit like an International twelve which has a rounded stem and a Bow thwart behind a Lug rigged mast set forward in the boat. It also seems to have qhite a deep keel,
The Int 12 site is at
http://www.patrimoine-leman.ch/dinghy12/
Take a look and you will see what I mean. I wouldn't try to upset them either as from the look of their "October Picture of the month" they've got a "Strong following!"
If I wasn't frightened of the prospect of divorce I would snap this one up.
If it really is a Chichester OD ther's a Classic section at Bosham Sailing Club waitng for this kind of boat.
Michael.
Michael Brigg

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