Early Int. Moth info.

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solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:32 am

Nessa........having failed miserably to get my Mag 8 going easily (from an awkward beach, admittedly) I would recommend some temporary buoyancy in the wing-tips until you get the feel of her, and starting her rather like you might beach start a windsurfer, ie pull yourself aboard against the sail. I presume you sail straight off a jetty at Hunts?? I don't know if that's an advantage or not......(would be interested in your view on that actually, now that I may end up relocating to inland sailing at some point)

One other thing.....and please don't laugh.....when I used to teach and we did capsize drill (in Wayfarers), I used to hoist a buoyancy aid up the mast to stop turtle-ing (you may do this when you're teaching?)......and as Moths are NOT the easiest to right due to the wings, it may pay to do sea trials with any suitable "stabilizers".........I admit I'm going to do exactly this first time out with the ToY, having no idea what to expect.....and I don't care what folk think,......although I think it will be a mid-week sail with fewer potential hecklers :)
Sami.

davidh
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by davidh » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:48 am

Hi Sami....

Rupert is another ex ToY sailor and will, I'm sure, be able to give you some sound advice - but from my experience the boat seemed to come up okay. It helps that the hull is fairly narrow, plus you've got the plank to yank on.

If you want to go mid week and want a hand then give me a shout and I'll come along (I'll even leave the camera behind.... now there is an offer)

Dougal
David H

solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:51 am

A thought.....I've just been reading various Moth related stuff online, and came across mention of someone recently building a "classic" Moth, i.e. modern build to old rules. Now I know this would not be to CVRDA rules, (although in the general spirit, I suppose) but many years ago I wanted to build a Moth, never got around to it, and still would like to, but not high-tech.....more in the "charming" amateur style :) .
It just made me wonder how many other folk out there still have an interest/unfilled ambition to build under old rules (and if so, which era?) I have always been interested in hull design, and meant to try and buy a cheapish s/h rig, and then do some experimenting with hull design/building. I may even get to do it one day!
Anyone else thinking along these lines?
Sami.

solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:56 am

Hi David.........thanks for the offer......I'll think about that,.....I saw a pic of me in my wetsuit the other day.....not a pretty sight, so a bit shy at present :oops:
I think you're right about the ToY's ability to come up ok, but that mast seems awfully heavy compared to modern boats (or am I just out of condition?)........discretion first time out I think.....I'll just claim it as a fashion accessory :D
Sami.

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Nessa
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Nessa » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:08 am

Yeah, I actually noticed even the foilers have infaltable bits in their tramps. One of those guys told me to use 'water wings' and I have procured some pipe insulation especially for them purpose (couldn' face the bright colours of the recommended pool noodles) I also have a mast head float that I use for various boats. It's actually a club rule that we have to sail the club double handers with these things, but I also have one.

I am expecting to film the lot, so stand by for ticket prices....
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solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:13 am

Yes, pipe insulation is ideal......meant to say that actually........I really want ringside seat/live streaming.........a shame I'm not closer. Are you going to have a go before you're op in May?
Sami.

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Nessa
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Nessa » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:19 am

I may have a go this weekend. I'm working on the principle that if I'm having an op anyway, may as well go for it while I can!
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PaulM
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by PaulM » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:27 am

Yes, all 'skinny' boats need flotation in the wings, even foilers. Wide (ie up to Magnum 6) boats are easier to sail for a beginner with flotation, either pipe foam wrapped round the bars as you say, and/or bubble-wrap rolled into a sausage and inserted into the trampoline pockets.

With an ali mast, even a light one, there is momentum when you start wobbling so buoyancy at the masthead may help - it's not possible to totally seal a mast but it doesn't matter too much if it does go inverted (provided the water is deep enough that the masthead doesn't stick in the mud!) as you can stand on the underside of the wing and pull on the plate to get it on its side.

However, when on its side the hull always ends up downwind of the rig because of the windage of the wing, so the trick is to pull it up just far enough for the wind to get under the sail and swing it round until the hull is head-to-wind.

Then you pull it up and plant your forward foot on the gunwhale where the forward part of the wing and shroud meet, grab the shroud as it comes up, and step gracefully round the front of the wing and back in (in theory!).

As for launching, my favourite is to get just enough rudder down for steerage and step straight in over the transom with a push, then sort everything out when a bit further away from shore. Getting off a lee-shore in surf basically needs a helper or two up their waists in the oggin......

And I'm in the Solent area, so if you want a hand/tips this w/e, let me know if I can help.

Paul M

edit: it's crucial to have a non-slip surface in the cockpit!!!

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Nessa
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Nessa » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:34 am

I spoke to Axeman Mark yesterday and he showed me the scars on his boat where previous sailors and he himself had stepped over the wing and put their feet through the side of the boat. He also described the launch method as you did Paul, except he added then run frantically from side to side trying to get the boat stable!

Let's just say I have a vested interest in getting Her Indoors' drysuit feet repaired....

the aussie site (one fo the few where I cna find lowrider info) said it had video of capsize technique, but none of them linked to anything :(

I find it really disappointing that there is no info. Thanks for the offer Paul, and I would love to be on the solent, but I am in the flatlands...
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PaulM
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by PaulM » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:48 am

Trying to get over the wing onto the plate when capsizing is an acquired knack - better to just fall in, swim round and go from there, I'm afraid.........

Many builders used to put a layer of glass inside the topside ply along the length of the cockpit in case they fell against the side and also so they could brace a knee against it if required when righting without going through.

I'm afraid the Aussie website has gone all modern and blog like the UK one, and likewise is the worse for it, with a lot of good old stuff no longer being available.

Paul

solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:55 pm

Glad to see you're going for it before May Nessa..........and I agree with all that Paul has said based on my experience, and watching others.
Sami.

Rupert
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Rupert » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:06 pm

Sami - the ToY is pretty stable, really, being flat bottomed, and wasn't too hard to right, but a float for the early experiments could be wise. Sadly, I'm not very wise...
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solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:53 pm

I'm sure you are really Rupert :)
I've just realised that I haven't actually capsized in quite a long time, so maybe I'll use the first outing to take a "refresher" (in every sense) ......just so that it's not so much of a shock if I go over unintentionally, :)
Sami.

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Mcjim
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Mcjim » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:04 am

Hi from New Zealand,
I hadn't found this site until yesterday and then I found somebody posting information about my boat. I have one of the New Zealand restricted moths designed by Hal Wagstaff thet FDBCM was writing about on page 2.

This one has a fibreglass hull which isn't exactly light but is probably why i has survived.
When I got it the bendy wooden mast had come unglued - which took a bit of
work/ignorance/hope to put back together but is has held so far.

I now take it out for swimming practice when the crew who must be obeyed isn't available to sail the other boat.

It isn't particularly fast but competes ok against the local Zephyrs (moth-ish 11 footers) and europes. It's also really is good for confusing people.
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davidh
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by davidh » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:46 am

Hi McJim.......... and welcome to the site. As you can see, we get a lot of input from all over on every classic dinghy topic there is - though some (Like Michael Briggs and Co) can wander off theme quite easily!

I had to laugh when I saw your picture - I'd been down at Rooster Sail recently and seen the hull form of the much vaunted 'Project X' - a new single hander that was aimed at storming the market. Well, your boat is a dead ringer for it......

Last night I was ready about the Moth Worlds that were held up in the North Island in 1980 - I've got pictures and reports - I will have to get this uploaded to the web sometime.

Meanwhile, any more pictures that you may have... let's see them!

Dougal
David H

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