Early Int. Moth info.

[PaulM]

Here are a couple of fuzzy pics grabbed from the German website, showing the wider hull of the Magnalium and a Magnum 2 with a non-standard self-draining cockpit; s/d cockpits didn't become standard on Claridge-built boats until 1978-9 and at first still had a stern tank with a drainage tube through it.

Paul

[PaulM]

Today's update: while the Magnum 2 dominated in late '75 and early '76, it failed to win the '76 worlds, euros or nationals which were all light weather, so for 1977 the Magnum 3 was given a bit more displacement and rocker (the Magnum 2 had basically no rocker, just a slight turnup at the bow and stern so it could be tacked).

The Magnum 3 had the overlapped chines at the stern, originally had a footwell cockpit but then from '79 self-draining through a tube in the stern tank which can be seen on this one (the orange one is Andy Patterson of Bloodaxe before he got serious with the Axeman designs). From 1980 fully self-draining became standard. Also by now there's the standard ali rudder stock.

Paul

[makerofthings]

hi there,
been really enjoying the reading of this thread, i have brought moth 4009, a magnum 9.9, and have been getting it up to scratch and learning to sail it, it is without doubt the most fun i have ever had in a boat, recommend everyone at least once learns to sail a moth... i'm sailing in the carrick roads off falmouth in cornwall and would love to see a few more of these boats sailing down here,
also, i reckon there should be a bit of a lowrider cup event for those of us who can't afford one of the modern beasts...
anyway... cheers for the bits of info, and the waybackmarker links.
dan.
http://dmc-makerofthings.blogspot.com/

[Ed]

Would love to try Dan.....but think I am most probably too fat'n'old now.....

The IC is quite enough excitement for me.

If you get lonely on Carrick roads....you can always come up to Roadford for a laugh. We haven't had any moths there for a while now.

cheers

eib

[makerofthings]

ha fair enough... but you have taken the older mans next step... canoe sailing looks like it offers similar thrills...

are people sailing over the winter at roadford? and what are the launching fees like... my brother lives nearby, so might drop up for a weekend... also, consider this an invite to come down here, i launch off the beach next to restronguet sailing club... only have to pay for the carpark that way.. is a great place to be sailing..

was out last night, only me and a solitary windurfer, force 5 gusting 6, seriously rapid and very wet but well worth it for the experience...

cheers. dan.

[Ed]

We should be sailing through the winter....well, I should say that some of us will sail through the winter...that might or might not include me!

Not sure how much the launch fees are.....most probably horrendous I am sure someone else from Roadford will be able to tell us. It would be good to see you. If I know you are coming, I will try and pull together the other local ICs and Moths.

cheers

eib

[makerofthings]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250910067495? ... 1423.l2649

this looks like a good starter, lets see it arrive in cornwall so i got some competition...

[Max McCarthy]

Here is what my recently renovated skol looks like, the boat was an early 1970s rondar mk1. The centreboards was interesting, it folds out, instead of the usuall daggerboard. It is also incredibly light, about 28 kg (not sure though)

[imptoo]

It must be raining Rondar Skols. Last weekend I picked one up in New Jersey (USA) in desperate condition. I'll post a few pix of the poor beast if someone explains how to do that.

Additionally, one can view photos of Classic and Vintage Moths scattered among the posts one my blog spot: http://mid-atlanticmusings.blogspot.com

I can also answer the question of why there are very few pre Nr 2000 circle-M Moth Boats in the UK: prior to 1970 the IMCA was essentially a US National class with several European class groups playing by the rules which the Americans controlled. The IMCA numbering system, which had started back in the late 1920s was already up to Nr 2000 by the year 1960. I started racing Moths a year earlier in '59 and well remember how "modern" Nr 2000 seemed compared to my poor nail sick Ventnor Moth, built in 1946 and numbered 774. So, since the majority of European boats didn't reach a critical mass until the late '50s/early '60s few if any numbers lower than 2000 were awarded to boats outside of the states.

The World Championship really didn't become truly international until the year 1960, which was the very first year the IMCA "worlds" were actually sailed somewhere other than the USA. That year they were sailed in France and from that point on the IMCA slowly inched it's way towards becoming an international class in both word and deed.

In the mid 1960s Pierre Roggo, Claude Barth and Dennis Weber came over to Cape May, New Jersey for that edition of the worlds. They sailed Dunand-designed boats, which we lated referred to as "Swiss" Moths. A distinctive and controversial feature of those boats were that they had small deck extensions which allowed the skipper to hike out a little further than usual. The Americans immediately shouted "those are wings!", which of course were illegal. The Swiss reply was "No, those aren't wings, they're um, rub rails!--Yes, that's it! Rub Rails!" In the end the Swiss were permitted to sail and Roggo won. In the late 1960s the Aussies wanted to compete in the IMCA Moth Worlds but of course they had a different rig. In 1969 Dave McCay brought up an Imperium design scow with the tall (high aspect) Aussie rig and was allowed to sail with that rig. He dominated that series which opened with heavy breeze and flat water--perfect scow conditions. On the last day of that regatta the breeze died and Duflos boats with a mixture of low (circle-M) and high (Aussie) rigs came to the fore. But even in the light stuff McCay showed his championship mettle by bringing his scow home in fifth place in conditions which clearly did the scow no favors. The following year McCay was a repeat winner down in Australia.

In 1969 the Americans, guided by Tony Hibbert, redrew the class constitution from being one controlled solely by Americans to one in which there was a world body with member country representatives--the current IMCA organization. Sadly Moth Boating died out in the USA by the late 1970s for a number of reasons which would take too long for this already long post. Those of us in the states with soft spots in our heads decided to get the circle-M rig boats out to play again in 1989 and in 1990 we formed the Classic Moth Boat Association largely using the measurement rules which were in play prior to the adoption of the tall rig and wings. So, there's an American perspective.

George in Maryland

[Max McCarthy]

Thanks George, that has answered a lot of my questions after reading this thread (especially the numbers).

[imptoo]

My pleasure. I'm the current CMBA Secretary and have collected into my archives a number of Moth Boat related items including what's left of the surviving IMCA records from the American period. According to those records during the time of American control of the IMCA, numbers 2500 to 2599 were allotted to England, as were numbers 2610 to 2659. Additionally, it appears that the bulk of the 2800 numbers were also allotted to the UK Moth authority. However, the biggest block of numbers, 3001 to 3999 went to the IMCA-UK after the transition from American control to IMCA-World control. Our numbers (IMCA-US) stopped at 3000 and started again with number 4000 and then run to approximately 4250 before petering out. Interestingly, when the IMCA-US regrouped a couple years ago (when foilers were all the rage), the IMCA-World body had the American boats start numbering in the 3000 series! Poetic justice perhaps?

GPA

[solentgal]

At last.............Thank you soooo much George for answering my original question for this thread.....I've been puzzling over that issue for 40 odd years!!!
K2539 (Europa with swing keel) is an ongoing project for me, hopefully afloat next year

[imptoo]

Sami, you're most welcome. I have a request for information about one of my Europes. The boat in question is of wooden veneer construction but the builder is unknown. I've yet to work out how to attach photos to these forum posts but I will add some representative photos to my blog spot (see my earlier post for the URL). I DO NOT believe that Gyspy is a Roland-built boat due to differences between her cockpit construction and that seen in genuine Roland Europes. A previous owner thought that the boat was built in Italy, but had no proof to back up that notion. I will post some photos on my blog spot over my lunch break. Any clues will be appreciated.

George in Maryland

[roger]

Hi George,

If you look in announcments you will find an image posting guide. Hope that will help.

Roger

[imptoo]

Thanks Roger. Next time I'll do that, although I'm discovering that most of my photos exceed the file size limit so I'll need to figure out how to put them on a diet. Meanwhile I've posted some photos of a Roland cockpit and my wood Europe's cockpit here:

http://mid-atlanticmusings.blogspot.com ... ntity.html

and so will avoid being redundant by posting the same info twice. Hopefully someone can help me solve this little mystery!
George