Early Int. Moth info.

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Ed
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Ed »

The question of ownership and copyright need to be considered. This was straightforward for the IMCA site as much of the information was their own or Tony Hibbert's. If CVRDA were to take this on you will need to get permission from Tony Hibbert and IMCA.
Absolutely! my point exactly.

The question was.....if the IMCA don't want to publish this material any more, (which seems an immense pity for me) Is it worthwhile for the CVRDA trying to make sure the digital archive is not lost and still available as widely as possible?

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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by PaulM »

Many of the photos were provided by Chris Eyre and Ian Ridge (who is a mate of David H), and some by me - I think if someone could contact Adam May via the Moth website they could either get the publishing permissions transferred, to take over and adapt those old pages, or get the contact details of the people who provided the pics and start afresh.

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solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal »

Hi everyone,

Been away for a few days, missed all this chat, but just want to add my support for sorting the Moth archive......I think this is very important, not just for nostalgia reasons, but as a record/history of dinghy development.....unfortunately I'm not connected with the racing scene of those days really and don't know anyone that can assist, and I'm hopeless technically, otherwise I would have volunteered to help, so it is moral support only I'm afraid :(

Overall I agree with the whole vintage Moth activity idea in the uk........there must be more like-minded folk out there who maybe are not aware of the CVRDA or the gathering momentum of this Moth interest.......so maybe we need to find some way of promoting the idea via clubs and events? Just a thought.

George: Just to confirm regarding the "red" Skol on here that Max now owns......it used to be mine, and I can confirm that the pivoting plate was a later addition. I did some investigating when I bought her.....peeling back the layers revealed the box had been layed over previous deck paint aft, and the box is wooden/glass, screwed through from under the hull....a neat enough job, but I wondered why someone went to the effort? Possibly when the later rig was added though? I also believe she is a mk1, and that, being an early boat, she may have had her hull number marked on the centreline/"hog" (as my Europa has) before the rules specified transom marking. There is no hull number anywhere on that hull that I was able to find (including under the gunwhale)......so I think the centre box mod may have obliterated the number....I don't know if anyone can confirm that theory? Otherwise maybe she was never registered? Did Rondar provide the boats ready registered (in the UK at least?) or was it up to owners to do that on purchase?
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by imptoo »

Sami: Apparently the Skol was offered with a pivoting centerboard. An ad from the 1969 IMCA-UK yearbook mentioned two models--the Skol SL and the Skol Regate (one design). The Regate was billed as having the same hull shape and deck lay out as the SL but was heavier and stronger and also came equipped with the previously mentioned pivoting centerboard.

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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal »

Ah......That's interesting George, thanks. Just to save confusion, by the way, the one I used to own is the orangy red hull/white deck, non self draining one owned now by Max, not the red sd one.....I hadn't spotted that pic when I posted last.
The one I had was definitely a conversion, and I have to say I generally prefer a pivoting plate for more control......but then I've never bothered too much about winning! :?

Flipping through the yearbooks that I managed to open via the archive links in an earlier post (thank you sooo much!) I noticed that there were 153 Europas built (as of 1972) and, as there were non in production at that point in the UK, I assume there were no more built until the Europe took off in the UK as a separate class in the mid 70s(ish). Looking through old magazines from the early/mid 60s, when most Europas were built, I see at least some appear to have daggerboards, but both the boats I have owned (now, and in 1973) have pivoting plates. I'm just curious as to what the rule differences between the original Europa Moth and the modern Europe are (if any).
As I mentioned before there are differences in dimensions, and I will be out in the garage this morning, so will re measure for comparrison.....so if you're reading this Nessa, take a tape next time you're out near a Europe :)
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by angus »

I would like to add my support to any vintage moth activity and the recovery of moth archives. I have a Skol mk2 which I have been unable to find any number on.
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by jpa_wfsc »

angus wrote:I would like to add my support to any vintage moth activity and the recovery of moth archives. I have a Skol mk2 which I have been unable to find any number on.
did you look under the winglets back near the transom on port side?
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by angus »

I looked every where but the hull has been well plastered with paint with that information I will have another look.....Once it stops snowing
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal »

Hi All,
Some dimensions for Europa K2539:
I did a sketch and put dimensions on.......not incredibly accurate, measured between vertical faces, and include any trim where applicable.

Image

The question is who built her? It will be interesting to see how much she varies from a modern Europe....(and also if there are many differences between modern Europes too) Going by the sail number and trawling through old magazines I reckon she was built in 1965.
When I looked through the Archives originally on the Moth site, I did see a PDF of the 1965 yearbook......I'm assuming we don't have access to that currently? It would be very useful. Back when I saw it a few years ago, I magnified the back pages and went all through the sail numbers/owners trying to track my original boat.....by luck, I think it was the very first entry if I have remembered the number correctly (K2332) and was fairly local (Lymington I think), but I wonder if anyone remembers her moving to Emsworth (which is where I bought her about 8 years later).......as for K2539, I have no history at all unfortunately.

I'm also fairly sure my original boat was smooth hulled like a modern Europe, diagonal planked from gunwhale to keel (I think), but the current one has an external keel, similar to most boats, and only has the upper hull aft of the mast (roughly) slotted and then doubled on the inside (so pretty much the area covered by the side tanks). She is quite heavy by modern standards.....although she has had several repairs, and strengthening before I acquired her, so not surprising really.
Does anyone recognise the builder's style, or have any ideas? I would love to know. I have plenty of pics http://s1177.photobucket.com/albums/x341/solentgal/ and can post more if needed.

Many thanks.
Sami.
ent228
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by ent228 »

This maynot be a good place to put this up, but here is a good thread with info about Int Moths and some videos.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... pic=127689
solentgal
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by solentgal »

Thanks, I'll check it out,

I posted it as I know there are a couple of folk on here willing to take dimensions....,and there seem to be an older audience here too, who may remember that far back (she said hopefully)
Sami.
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Max McCarthy »

Hi, having recently looked at the skol moth I think that Sami's right, that the centre plate has been added latter on, very neatly. And it looks like it is supposed to be there, but it does look as though (if you look closely) it is fitted.
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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by PaulM »

Is everyone still sleeping off their Christmas lunch? 8)

On Skols; they were a bit before my time but I guess that 'SL' was Superlight and then the Skol 2 was the same shape but made stronger and more finished to appeal to a wider market. Then the Skol 3 was wider with more displacement at a time when all the 'sailing surfboards' such as the Minisail, Seabat, Sailfish etc were on the market in the UK, so maybe was meant to compete as a family sports boat.

As to internal structure, the Magnum 2 was about the first to have diagonal frames between the kingpost and shrouds - until then there would be a transverse strut (if at all) to keep the sides apart, and maybe something to the forestay. The fully-triangulated structure to take the rig stresses made a big difference to hull life, even before the use of epoxy.

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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by PaulM »

Image

Here is a quick Spotters' Guide to some of the Magnums (it doesn't include the 4, Phobia, 9.5, 9.9 or 10) to start with.

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Re: Early Int. Moth info.

Post by Pat »

Paul could you put that into bigger pictures and some words please and I'll put it in the classes section on the main website. http://www.cvrda.org/wp-cvrda/?page_id=191

Email me the words as text and the pix as jpg to pat at cvrda dot org if possible.
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