Bill Kempner on Fireball

an area to discuss dinghy developments
whacko!
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: Emsworth, Hants; usually sail in Chichester Harbour

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by whacko! »

Many thanks David! I'll be in touch by e-mail.

Chris
solentgal
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: twixt Chichester & Pompey

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by solentgal »

Chris,
I have readable pics of that article I can send to your email address if you pm it to me, (don't think it will load on here, and not sure re copyright issue for putting on photobucket)

I have put my boat on the Fireball database, ........but can anyone identify the builder from the pics please?

Image

Image

Image

Taken Jan 2011, and plaque from Thames authority dated 1973 can be seen on thwart. Although the boat was sailed immediately prior to purchase by previous owner, I don't think the plaque would have survived all those years unless the boat was stored. The grain on the deck was very raised, as if left bare, but unfortunately it had been painted (probably recently) and is right in the grain, so tricky to re-varnish to a good standard. Very sound throughout though.
Sami.
whacko!
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: Emsworth, Hants; usually sail in Chichester Harbour

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by whacko! »

Hi Sami,

Many thanks indeed! My e-mail address is cdwt9538@btinternet.com

I love the originality of your boat: mainsheet horse still in situ and some wooden hatch covers, too! It is difficult to tell who the builder may have been. I can see similarities with '66' which is a Chippendale hull decked by its first owner (I'll try and upload a picture or two). Your best bet is to contact Bob Southworth via the Committee page on the UKFA site. He may well have the original measurement form from which you'll be able to identify the builder, first owner, original name of the boat etc.

Chris
FBs 6 & 66
solentgal
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Location: twixt Chichester & Pompey

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by solentgal »

Hi Chris,
Thanks for that, I'll do that when I get back from Scotland next week, it would be great to know some history. You should have some pics on your email if you haven't already found them.
Sami.
Michael Brigg
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Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by Michael Brigg »

whacko! wrote:I'm delighted the photo has been noticed (thanks again to David H for allowing me to use it) and provoked comment!

...I'm also looking to create a photo archive of photos of Fireball personalities and their boats from yesteryear.

So, if any CVRDA members are able to assist I'd love to hear from them. In the first instance please e-mail me at cdwt9538@btinternet.com or through the 'Archivist' e-mail address on the UKFA site: http://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/

Chris Turner
Fireballs 6 & 66
Hi Wacko,

Is this of interest to you?

I've No idea what the number of this one was, but its an "old" Fireball, (You can see it has the breakwater and old style Mainsheet horse.)

It was sold (I suspect for very little money) in the Turks boat auction last year. Sadly I had other agendas (like buying an IC) at the time cos I think it would have been an Interesting bit of Fireball construction history, from a reasonable quality builder (Turks Boatyard) and it looked to have been dry stored in a fossilized state with no alterations for many years.

The link to the pictures is here.

https://www.apexauctions.com/auction-us ... otId=38347

I especially like the curved over detailing of the mainsheet traveller and old tufnol winch!
Michael Brigg
whacko!
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Location: Emsworth, Hants; usually sail in Chichester Harbour

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by whacko! »

Hi Michael,

I read your messages about the auction at the time and had a chat with the yard owner about that FB. Like you I was particularly taken by the winch etc! The boat had been built by one of the chaps at the yard for the owner who had sailed it on the Thames around 1965 with a trapeze fitted. Strangely, though, there was no record of the sail number either on the thwart or on the sail itself and the owner was at loss to explain why. Anyway, I decided to bid for it not least because the mast had hardly been used and was in really good condition. Unfortunately, at the moment of bidding -and close to auction expiry time because I left it to the last minute - I discovered the software at work wasn't compatible with that used by the auction house (I'd registered from home a few days earlier) and couldn't actually get my bid to stick. So that was the end of that !

Chris
GAv
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Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by GAv »

Of course 70s Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath sailed a Fireball(and Snipe) at Broadstairs SC, before the first of his Morning Cloud Yachts, there seems precious little info out there on Heath's Fireball interests.
I do however remember it being discussed on the association's old website after Sir Ted's passing on.
Graham T
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Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by Graham T »

Ted Heath was presented with a set of Rolly Tasker fireball sails by the Australian government whilst on a visit there. My father who sailed FB No. 20 at Broadstairs acquired these sails from Ted and still has them in the cupboard under the stairs for some reason. Unfortunatly it would appear FB20 was burned when the last owner was emigrating and couldn't find anyone to take her on.
Graham T
Osprey 1340, Osprey 1245, Osprey 55, Miracle 1358, Laser heap, ancient Mirror kit half assembled, Project Miracle in need of decks........
Kielder Water Sailing Club
whacko!
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: Emsworth, Hants; usually sail in Chichester Harbour

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by whacko! »

Hi Graham,

Fascinating to hear that a suit of Ted Heath's FB sails survive. I had been wondering if I'd be able to establish the sail numbers of his boats (I think there may have been two but I'm really not sure).

So.......do you think you'd be able to ask your father what sail number is on the mainsail? That would be greatly appreciated; I'd really like to know. Of course, if he is interested in finding a good home for the sails I'd be very happy to taken on custodianship!

A great pity about FB20 being burned (I'll make a note for UKFA's records). Sadly, often the case. Incidentally, I believe FB3 may also have sailed out of Broadstairs. I've no idea what happened to that one but suspect it probably met the same fate as '20'.

Chris
FBs 6 & 66
JimC
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Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by JimC »

whacko! wrote:(I think there may have been two but I'm really not sure).
Just one I think according to his book. Chippendale built, named Blue Heather II. No sign of the sail number, but I've seen a forum post that claims it was 2468, he same as on his leadmines. I have no idea of veracity.
GAv
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Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by GAv »

In 1967 Ted Heath bought and sailed the Snipe
'BLUE HEATHER'
which he sold at the end of the summer, and bought a Fireball
'BLUE HEATHER II'
, one of the first to have a fibre-glass hull and built by Chippendales. He sailed this in the summer of 1968, and as it is quite a demanding boat, like most of us, he had the occasional swim following a capsize. At the end of that summer he parted with that boat, and decided on a Sparkman and Stephens 34,
'MORNING CLOUD'
, and in 1969 started sailing in off-shore races round the coast
full article @ http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25765542/ME ... HISTORY-OF
whacko!
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: Emsworth, Hants; usually sail in Chichester Harbour

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by whacko! »

With unbelievable timing that Fireball from Turks has turned up in Maidstone:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fireball-sailing- ... 3f06a5528d

Presumably the damage has been repaired.
Michael Brigg
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by Michael Brigg »

whacko! wrote:Hi Michael,

I read your messages about the auction at the time and had a chat with the yard owner about that FB. Like you I was particularly taken by the winch etc! The boat had been built by one of the chaps at the yard for the owner who had sailed it on the Thames around 1965 with a trapeze fitted. Strangely, though, there was no record of the sail number either on the thwart or on the sail itself and the owner was at loss to explain why. Anyway, I decided to bid for it not least because the mast had hardly been used and was in really good condition. Unfortunately, at the moment of bidding -and close to auction expiry time because I left it to the last minute - I discovered the software at work wasn't compatible with that used by the auction house (I'd registered from home a few days earlier) and couldn't actually get my bid to stick. So that was the end of that !
Chris
Chris,

Looks like you've got a second bite if you want one!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/sailing-dinghy-fi ... 3f06aab0ff
Michael Brigg
Peter H
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 2:34 pm

Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by Peter H »

Been away, joined this thread a bit late. Bill Kempner was the acknowledged star of the 10sqm Canoe at the time, so with the other attributes identified elsewhere on this thread clearly wasn't sailing the planked Fireball for a bit of fun. And of course the plank on a canoe IS very wide, allowing the helmsman to get quite a longway from the gunwhale. I believe there was somesort of presumption in the "rules" against a trapeze, so the final sollection of the Contender seems a little strange.

A bit later I sailed Jack Knights' Contender, together with a Unicorn and a Toy at Lowton's (before amalgamation with Leigh) one of a kind weekend. and since then I've owned a couple of Contenders.

I've never understood why the design has the boom so unreasonably low (although not as low as a Finn or OK) Was it because the expectation was that the mast would be more upright? With another 9"" of head room the Contender would qualify for the gentleman's yacht group of dinghies, which includes FD, 5o5, Hornet amongst those easy and comfortable to helm, but difficult to helm fast.

Then again there is the old Victorian Yachtsman's view that "a Gentleman never goes to winward."

Peter H
Nessa
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Re: Bill Kempner on Fireball

Post by Nessa »

I have an old contender sail - number K156 I think - which has such a long leech that if I put it up my new mast means the boom scrapes the deck! Not only are the masts raked back much more now, but also the mast is mounted on a little 'wedge' so it's raked even more. I had the same issue with a phantom main sail, from 1973 - it was unusable with a modern rig because it simply wasn't designed for so much rake.

The most unladylike aspect of sailing a contender is forgetting to let the kicker off before a tack and getting wedged under the boom which then can't get across...... there is usually only one way out of that and it involves getting your hair wet...
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