Beachcomber and Aquabat
Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi everybody, I would like to ask if anyone has old magazines with either adverts or reports for Beachcomber or Aquabat Dinghies, I would like to collect a database of information in one "place" of any info formal or informal regarding the above mentioned Dinghies or derivatives, have they raced did they ever receive a Plymouth yard stick , was their a national league etc, how many active sailors are their on cvrda, or could you let me know other classic websites that may have above mentioned dinghy sailors. Thanks Rob.
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
I can answer the bit about the Yardstick, but little else, I'm afraid. The Beachcomber sailed off 110 on the system where the Firefly was 100. Doing the maths from this handicap to a modern one is straightforward, but the answer you get doen't necessarily work, as there are so many variable factors over the years.
Basically, though, multiply the 110 by 1.2 to get the next incarnation of PY, then by 9.46 to get the modern one (thank you Jim C for those figures, years ago!). So 110 becomes 132 and then 1249.
The Minisail was also 110, but 1250 proved a little kind in any wind (as did 110, to be fair, hence the reduction in cvrda handicap to 108) but I suspect the Beachcomber will be a ittle slower than a Minisail in real life, so give your club 1250 as a trial figure and see how the results go compared to when you are sailing aboat with a settled handicap.
Basically, though, multiply the 110 by 1.2 to get the next incarnation of PY, then by 9.46 to get the modern one (thank you Jim C for those figures, years ago!). So 110 becomes 132 and then 1249.
The Minisail was also 110, but 1250 proved a little kind in any wind (as did 110, to be fair, hence the reduction in cvrda handicap to 108) but I suspect the Beachcomber will be a ittle slower than a Minisail in real life, so give your club 1250 as a trial figure and see how the results go compared to when you are sailing aboat with a settled handicap.
Rupert
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi Rupert, thanks for info. I would like to add, I do not expect members to send books or magazines etc, I would prefer any items scanned, I am hoping to put info on the website I am building. Thanks again Rob.
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Pat is currently (when she has time) working on making the dinghy database editable, so that people with an interest can look after sections of it and post extra information. Sounds like something like that could be useful to you?
The other person to get advice from may be David Argles on he Minisail site. He gathered info together on the Minisail onto his own site for many years, and may have some good ideas.
The other person to get advice from may be David Argles on he Minisail site. He gathered info together on the Minisail onto his own site for many years, and may have some good ideas.
Rupert
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
The only documented info I have is a page in Burrett.
Worth keeping an eye on eBay though and asking for proper jpegs of anything that comes up for sale there
Re the yardstick, the numbers Rupert quoted were for the lateen rigged version - it would be interesting to see how the Bermudan compares in both performance and pointing ability.
My club treats used the "same as a Topper" PY for it but pointing ability makes a big difference in staying out of the tide. As I only ever sail it when it is so windy everyone else stays in the clubhouse I do not get chance to test the PY
.
Worth keeping an eye on eBay though and asking for proper jpegs of anything that comes up for sale there
Re the yardstick, the numbers Rupert quoted were for the lateen rigged version - it would be interesting to see how the Bermudan compares in both performance and pointing ability.
My club treats used the "same as a Topper" PY for it but pointing ability makes a big difference in staying out of the tide. As I only ever sail it when it is so windy everyone else stays in the clubhouse I do not get chance to test the PY
.Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi Nigel and Rupert, thanks for advice regarding Dinghy data base, Rupert I noticed sentence regarding real life, I would not have thought 2 boats of same size, same weight, same sail size would be very different in speed, in fact I suspect Aquabat would probably be faster due to narrower bows and now Rudder block as been removed and drag reduced, the Aquabat would probably just edge it. Rob.
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi Rob,
it is generally not that simple. In my experience, by far the most important factor in a boat's performance is the person that is sailing it. You only have to look at the range of finish times in any one-class race to see how much difference that can make.
Hull shape makes a huge difference too. One boat planing only marginally sooner than another can translate into a lot of distance on the water.
To confuse things even more, one boat may be faster (less slow
) for me due to my body weight, style, strengths/weaknesses etc. whilst the other may be the faster of the two for someone else.
It would take some serious sailing to make a proper assesment but just from observation, The minisail hull seems a bit broader at the front - I would surmise that this may make it likely to plane a little sooner (having said that, the angle of attack at the bows seems a little steeper so maybe not). This would though give it a larger wetted area so it may stick a little more in drifters (unless the helm can "do a fireball" with it and sail it on one chine to reduce the wetted area and increase waterline length).
The only other indicator is that the Minisail seems to have sold a lot more boats - this may be down to marketing, pricing, timing etc or it may indicate it had something going for it.
So in summary, I am firmly on the fence on this one .
it is generally not that simple. In my experience, by far the most important factor in a boat's performance is the person that is sailing it. You only have to look at the range of finish times in any one-class race to see how much difference that can make.
Hull shape makes a huge difference too. One boat planing only marginally sooner than another can translate into a lot of distance on the water.
To confuse things even more, one boat may be faster (less slow
) for me due to my body weight, style, strengths/weaknesses etc. whilst the other may be the faster of the two for someone else.It would take some serious sailing to make a proper assesment but just from observation, The minisail hull seems a bit broader at the front - I would surmise that this may make it likely to plane a little sooner (having said that, the angle of attack at the bows seems a little steeper so maybe not). This would though give it a larger wetted area so it may stick a little more in drifters (unless the helm can "do a fireball" with it and sail it on one chine to reduce the wetted area and increase waterline length).
The only other indicator is that the Minisail seems to have sold a lot more boats - this may be down to marketing, pricing, timing etc or it may indicate it had something going for it.
So in summary, I am firmly on the fence on this one
.Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi Nigel, I was just playing. I have no idea what makes 1 boat go faster than another, and it would take a better sailor than me to make a fair comparison, I have seen Ruperts racing results in his Minisail, very impressive, I can only apologise in advance if Rupert is offended. Rob.
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi Rob,
I think it would take a lot more than that to offend Rupert .
Personally, I like to think of my boats as being the slowest ever designed - it makes my results much more acceptable
I think it would take a lot more than that to offend Rupert
.Personally, I like to think of my boats as being the slowest ever designed - it makes my results much more acceptable
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
I am mortally offended that someone might think their boat is faster than mine!
Actually, one thing about sailing a slow boat like the Minisail is that almost everybody's boat is faster, which makes it great fun (for me!) keeping up. Others may be offended...
Speed wise, you are absolutely right, Nigel, we have no data at all to tell us whether a Beachcomber or Aquabat is faster than a Minisail. Even if we somehow even out the helming, the state of tune (especially the age of the sail) and the different weather conditions will still make an accurate judgement impossible. All we can do is guess, and in the cvrda allow for the state of tune, something the proper RYA system quite rightly doesn't allow.
Would love to sail on the same water as the Aquabat. We have a training session coming up in Late March for cvrda type boats at Whitefriars - we should have a fair few Minisails there - what chance a Beachcomber and Aquabat? And a camera, to mark the occasion. Swap boats a bit, see the differences - We could even write up a comparitive boat test like Dinghy Sailing Mag (RIP) used to do.
Actually, one thing about sailing a slow boat like the Minisail is that almost everybody's boat is faster, which makes it great fun (for me!) keeping up. Others may be offended...
Speed wise, you are absolutely right, Nigel, we have no data at all to tell us whether a Beachcomber or Aquabat is faster than a Minisail. Even if we somehow even out the helming, the state of tune (especially the age of the sail) and the different weather conditions will still make an accurate judgement impossible. All we can do is guess, and in the cvrda allow for the state of tune, something the proper RYA system quite rightly doesn't allow.
Would love to sail on the same water as the Aquabat. We have a training session coming up in Late March for cvrda type boats at Whitefriars - we should have a fair few Minisails there - what chance a Beachcomber and Aquabat? And a camera, to mark the occasion. Swap boats a bit, see the differences - We could even write up a comparitive boat test like Dinghy Sailing Mag (RIP) used to do.
Rupert
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
I'm already down to bring the Megabyte so slinging the Beachcomber on the top deck of the trailer will not be a problem.
I must warn you though that I picked up a brand new Catyak II lateen sail (identical in size to the original beachcomber) off eBay for £25. Just need to rig it onto the spars.
I must warn you though that I picked up a brand new Catyak II lateen sail (identical in size to the original beachcomber) off eBay for £25. Just need to rig it onto the spars.
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Excellent! R&J sails have finshed the mods to my Minisail sail now, so I'll have that back on, so comparing 2 boats with new sails will be a novelty for the cvrda!
Rupert
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi Rupert & Nigel, I have not got a new sail, I think this one is stretched and it has been patched at clew end, the boom is not very good and the rudder is not original, all excuses. I hope to come to Whitefriars and allow a decent sailor to beat your boats (only joking). I have had a good few hours on Hull this weekend and with a bit of luck it could be finished by end of this month, I will then try it out in secret. Rob.
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Good news. There will be various types of Minisail there, so we should start to get a good idea of what all the boats are like to sail.
We can also compare MS and Aquabat sails, & see if they are swappable.
We can also compare MS and Aquabat sails, & see if they are swappable.
Rupert
Re: Beachcomber and Aquabat
Hi Rupert, I put dimensions of sail and length of mast and boom on Minisail.org, I think they are identical. I was hoping to get in touch with Minisail sail maker with a view to getting one made, do the Aquabat sails have to be Yellow? Rob.