What dinghy classes were around in the early 1900's

[Rod]

It looks like we are coming up on the centenary of the International 12 class in 2013 (according to a Google Search, the first couple of boats were delivered by October 1913). The Water Wags (IRL) and the North Haven Dinghy (Maine in USA) claim their origins pre-1900's. I was wondering what other dinghy classes, extinct or alive, were around by say 1900-1910.

[JimC]

Various International 14 precursors, Thames Raters, and arguably Canoes sprimg to mind.

[Pat]

I would expect that some of the Norfolk Broads classes are pretty old too.
From the database (menu on the cvrda website front page) which includes keelboats I can find West Kirby Star 1906, Humber Yawl 1904, Yarmouth One design (pre WW1), Yorkshire One design 1898, Bembridge Redwing 1896, X One Design 1909 and of course the Thames A (and B) Raters 1897ish.

[Steve]

The first recorded regatta for International 12-foot Dinghies took place on 4th October 1913 on the Marine Lake at West Kirby Sailing Club.
The club, which had just taken delivery of a fleet of six Dinghies, decided to publicise the new class by inviting representatives of twelve sailing clubs from the north west of England to take part in an inaugural regatta. The winner was ‘Thunderer’ representing George Cockshott’s (designer of the 12' Dinghy) own sailing club: the Southport Corinthians.

We are planning to mark the anniversary of this event with a regatta at WKSC on the weekend of June 28-30th 2013.

[Michael Brigg]

The question of what Racing dinghies there were 100years ago (or in the 19th century) often interests me. I tend to believe there were virtually none, or at best confined to small one design or "menagerie" fleets sailed within a very small area, and usually very specifically designed to local conditions.

The major limitation to racing dinghies apart from available leisure, I believe was quite simply one of safety...

Comercial boats might certainly race because commercial gain came to the first boat to secure buisiness, be that Pilotage (pilot cutters) or bringing the catch to market. Even then other considerations such as a shallow draught design that could unload quickly, cheaply and easily on a beach without paying docking fees might win out over a design that had a faster, deep keel.

...And of course, "When two boats meet they race." is also a true observation all over the world.

However, until it was possible to have an effective means of rescue, and effective buoyancy, few in dinghies would venture far from the shore. At best you might have some sealed bronze tanks tied under the seats, and a centre board was regarded more as a weighted keel than a foil. Dinghies were built for practical matters and were made to be strong and hardy. In the absence of effective glues and laminated ply, the lightest construction method 100yrs ago was Clinker. The strakes of a Carvel built small boat/dinghy must be twice the thickness, and well over twice the weight of a clinker hull for the same stiffness and strength! The idea of laying two layers of planking into a yacht at right angles, (the fore runner of Plywood construction) was a revolutiionry idea introduced only in the late 19th c. for (very) large yachts.

Dinghies then were heavily built and carried either stone ballast or a heavy iron keel/centreboard and could very easily sink if capsized or swamped. The general public were usually weak swimmers and sailing clothing heavy and restrictive. To race more than few hundred yards from the shore in a small dinghy with no rescue boat was to risk your life!

Even as late as the 1948 olympics, the "Modern" firefly, with its built in buoyancy tanks (but no Bags at this stage) was nearly not adopted on account of its being "unseaworthy!" (It is easy to see why!)

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd31 ... wamped.jpg

[Rod]

Certainly size and safety had something to do with it, particularly in England where the sea and tidal conditions are boisterous. Certainly the Water Wags and the North Haven dinghies of the 1880's were designed as heavy dinghies that could handle wild conditions safely. At the turn of the century, early 1900's, we do see a radical shift in some attitudes, at least in some quarters. It is an interesting phenomena, but for the first time on a worldwide basis we see 12 foot, 14 foot, and 16 foot dinghies pop up. The Australian skiffs went from 22-footers to a wide array of small (and even for today, micro-small) sizes, 6, 8, 10, 12 foot skiffs. There is the LSSA 14 footers out of Toronto and the Genesee dinghies of Rochester NY, and there is George Cockshott of the U.K who I have now learned, not only did the International 12, but also the West Kirby Star class about 7 years prior to designing the International 12. And as someone has pointed out, the more benign Norfolk Broads were more conducive to producing dinghy classes - such as the single sail class that I've seen movies of some of the early International 14 sailors horsing around on. This introduction of the small dinghy in the early 1900's does seem to be centered on the Anglo/Commonwealth countries but I readily admit a shortcoming of not having much knowledge of dinghy development in other countries.

(As an aside, it seems that someone could apply some research and fill out the story of George Cockshott and properly elevate his stature among English sailing legends.)

[JimC]

The Australian skiffs went from 22-footers to a wide array of small (and even for today, micro-small) sizes, 6, 8, 10, 12 foot skiffs.

I'll check when I get home, but I think the small skiffs (not at all what most people think of as skiffs today) started rather earlier than the 1900s.

[davidh]

I already have the date of 2013 firmly placed in my 'longer term' diary and will be featuring Class and designer in a variety of publications. (Steve....I'll be getting back to you after the weymouth dust has settled - until then getting the attention of the editors is a non starter!)

As to the bigger picture of what was about.....I did start researching this topic when I was working on the dinghy designer 'Rock family tree'. The fact that this didn't happen was far more a case of the incompetence of a certain magazine owner rather than the lasck of quality material. The drafts of the 'poster' (the idea was for a wall poster that would go as a Christmas 'stuffer' inside the mag looked good and shows just how much history that there is out there - sadly though it is a history that will have to take a distant 2nd place to the goings on amongst the England 'squad'!

D

[Rupert]

The balance of history and current affairs is always a tricky one. I suspect on here we are biased towards history, understandably, but are the general sailing public?

However, all the Olympic hype has made me less interested, not more - Olympic Overload has set in, especially as I'll see no more of the games than if they were in Greece again, along with the majority of the population.

Looking at the classes that were used in Paris in 1904 might give some idea of what was being sailed on the continent at that time? Though I gather they were an odd bunch to our eyes, and possibly even then.

[kfz]

Rod,

As per what Michael says, I often see these lovely old things on the river up here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabird_Half_Rater



Designed for the Mersey's own version of Wind over tide.


Kev

[Obscured by clouds]

Seabirds. Next to dragons, my favourite boat ever. great one design racing, not very quick by today's standards, but thrills aplenty with that big gunter main.

[kfz]

Their lovely looking things. Ideal for racing down at the mouth of the river, it can get a bit rough down there. the Cmdre at WYC offered me a crew on one, i really need to take him up.

Between these and the Falcon's, Makes a Wayfarer or GP look like you have something small and tippy.

Kev

[Rupert]

When did the Bermuda fitted dinghies first make an appearance?

[JimC]

The long extinct Patikis, 18 and a half foot three handers, were in NZ from 1898. ("Fast Light Boats", Graham Anderson). But there was quite a bunch of classes imemdaitely after WW1.
From "Australian Wooden Boats Vol1" (Wooden Boat Assn of New South Wales), it quotes another book "Forgotten Fleets" by Dan Hardies, as saying that 24, 22, 19, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 and 6 ft skiff classes seem to have emerged fairly early, and quotes a 222 footer as winning a race in 1838. The 19footers were gone by 1864 and the 22s and 24s by about 1910. The 16 footers have existed in recognisable shape since 1901. 8 footers and 6 footers were racing regularly by 1891 - the book has lines of an 8 footer which was 8 ft length and 8 foot beam - a 3 hander.

[Rod]

"ktz" illustrates my point. The Seabird Half Rater keelboat was considered a proper "small boat" in the late 1800's. Those who started playing around with 12', 14', 16' sailing dinghies were likely considered foolhardy, if not a bit daft. You can see this in some newspaper articles that refer to dinghy racing in the early 1900's with diminuative descriptors such as "that mosquito fleet" or "the butterflies fltting about the bay".