What kind of Moth is that?

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Ditta
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What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Ditta » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:12 pm

Hi,
I've just taken on a new restoration project. She had been smiling at me for over 8 years from teh back of the dinghy shed. Finally she is mine, but what is she?
She is probably a Moth built around the late 1960s, but any idea what type or designer? There is no plate, no name or number, just a few holes in the bottom. Apparently she has foils, but I am yet to see these, but no rig.
Can any of you plese help. I need to know
What is she.
Who built her, where and when
what type of sail should she have (I think the mast was stayed)
where can I get a mast and sail?
What PYN should she have?

See photos in my next two posts...

Any hints would be great.
Thanks
Ditta
Last edited by Ditta on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ditta
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Ditta » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:24 pm

Photo-0042c.jpg
Photo-0040c.jpg
Photo-0039c.jpg
View from starborad bow.
Cannot access facebook, so here some photos. I'll try and get more added.
D

Ditta
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Ditta » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:26 pm

So here the last couple of photos.
D
Photo-0043c.jpg
Photo-0044c.jpg

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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Hotspur » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:30 pm

No idea whatsoever, but isn't it lovely! Like a mini-N12 Crusader
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Nessa » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:33 pm

oh its lovely. welcome Ditta, you have come to the right place to ask these questions and the proper mothies will be here soon to answer them.
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Spiderman » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:57 pm

Hi Ditta and welcome to the CVRDA Forum,
It's always good to see another Moth turning up out of the blue, especially one as interesting as yours.
I am pretty sure that yours is a Shelley design or at least a variation of one as it looks very similar to the Shelley Mk 2 that I remember seeing many years ago. That one was built by McCutcheon and was constructed differently to yours, but the shape is very reminiscent. I have a few pictures of Shelley designed Moths and yours has features in common with these from what I can see from your photos. I would agree with your estimate of late 60s when the boat was built as judging by the mast position (further aft than on my Mk 1) it would have been one of the early boats to have the taller high aspect rig which may have been fully battened. My Shelley was built before the UK class adopted the Aussie style tall rig. This would have a luff length of 17' and a foot length of about 7'. I might be able to tell more from some detailed pictures or better still a proper look depending where you are based? As far as I know all of Shelley's designs were intended to have a stayed rig with the mast foot either deck mounted like mine or through a slot in the foredeck down onto the centre spine as yours appears to be. Why did it take you 8 years of waiting patiently to aquire the boat?
Anyway I am pleased that you have rescued her and look forward to hearing more about your plans.

Regards

Ian M
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Ditta
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Ditta » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:28 am

Hi Ian,
thanks for your reply.
yes, why did it take me so long. For a start she did not belong to me until about 3 days ago. She is not in excellent shape and at that time my kids were pretty small and I was working my way through restoring a Mirror, followed by a 1960s Scorpion (number 507), a home built Europe and then got into fibreglass boats, several of whom needed mending too and still do. A couple of months ago one of the club members was threatening to take the moth to swim round our local tip. Aggravating and finally contacting the owner has landed her with me. I could not bear the thought.

Not sure if I can sail her, but I'm determined to give it a go. I'm certainly good at swimming.

You are very welcome to visit if you fancy a look, though the eyewatering drive North to Stonehaven may just be a wee bit offputting...
I'll try and get you some more photos of the mast set up next time I'm down at the harbour. Anything else you are particulalry interested in?

Regards
Ditta

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Ed
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Ed » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:56 pm

What a pretty boat! Well done for waiting.

Sometimes these boats, that just fall into our lives, without being searched out, can become the very best of friends.

I know nothing of Moths, so will let others answer your questions, but she is very pretty.

Welcome to the CVRDA, you will like it here.

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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Ditta » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:19 pm

Thank you all for your very kind welcome.
I can't wait to get started on her. Just leaves to finish that Hobie 14 that is blocking up the garage at the moment...that one needs to be ready for beginning of March when our club comes out of hybernation. Where did I put that sand paper again?
Regards
Ditta

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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by angus » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:41 pm

Hi Ditta great to hear of a moth being saved north of the border, I am not that far south of you at Auchterarder and sail at Forfar. I have a Skol Mark 2 if you ever want to get to gether.
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by JimC » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:50 pm

Looks a lot like a Skol 3 to me, presumably that's where the plastic boat came from.

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Max McCarthy
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Max McCarthy » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:03 pm

That is what I thought Jim, but if you take a look at the transom (unless yours was modificated even more than I imagined, if it is indeed a mk3) a supposed skol mk3 looks very different....although the 'wing-lets' (if you can call them that!) do seem to be the trademark of a skol, in some way or another....

download/file.php?id=1220&mode=view

Make of it what you will, as Jim knows a lot more about his own moth than I do!

Cheers,

Max

EDIT: Here are a couple of images of my old mk1 (now owned by Nessa) where you can see the wings, so you get the gist of what I am saying....

Image
Image

Although, there is a rear buoyancy chamber, in both the mk1 and mk2 skol, so I think that may pretty much rules out the skol's. Unless, of course there is more to the Mk3 story than I am aware of...
Last edited by Max McCarthy on Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by JimC » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:08 pm

Max McCarthy wrote:unless yours was modificated even more than I imagined, if it is indeed a mk3)
Oh it was... Basically it was (and currently is) sliced along the waterline. That whole white area on the stern is non-original. But I was thinking more about rocker, internal layout and stuff...

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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Max McCarthy » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:10 pm

Fair enough, to be honest, I did think exactly the same thing when I first saw an image of Ditta's moth (regarding the similarity to a skol mk 3)...
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by bornagainmothie » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:31 pm

Welcome Ditta, great to see another classic moth to be saved.

It is a beauty, and an unusual deck layout for that era, so much like a 12 I would be tempted to check it really is only 11ft long!

Sail number if it is on the hull, should be cut, carved or drilled into the port side near the transom. It may well be hidden under layers of paint so careful excavation in that area might reveal something.

When I first saw the pictures, like Ian I thought Shelley design, mainly because of the side deck angles and what looks like a chine on the transom photo, but the chine if it is there appears less distinct. The more round bilged designs such as Mistral, Skol or Duflos are close to that shape too. Mistral was more of a semi-circle transom, so maybe not that. Duflos lines are here to compare http://louis.pillon.pagesperso-orange.f ... uflos.html. Skol was already suggested by Jim and Max and the winglets are very close to the production fibreglass Skols.
If you have not seen them,the American Classic Moth fleets have lots of photos on this site and others linked from it http://mid-atlanticmusings.blogspot.co. ... sic%20Moth.

Judging by the 2 shroud plates on each side of your hull, (alternative mast positions?)I would imagine it has been used with both low and high aspect types of rig. The American classics all use the low aspect rigs but as Ian has proved with his Shelley, the high aspect rig suits the boat well and is perfectly manageable in a blow even without wings.

Good luck with the refurb and hope to see you at some CVRDA events soon.

Lyndon

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