What kind of Moth is that?

an area to discuss dinghy developments
davidh
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by davidh » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:36 pm

Yep, I know! You're right Al, I guess that I just had to accept the harsh truth that I'd never be able to follow you down the path towards sailing greatness.......

D
David H

bornagainmothie
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by bornagainmothie » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:57 am

Jim, thats a lot more designs we hadn't considered! An intriguing record of development up to the mid 70's and a hint of things to come...
Magnum - Latest design from M Cook. Early results very encouraging
...and pretty much won everything for the next 20 years!
Europa - A rather dated design ideal beginner's boat for cadets.
Demon King - Difficult boat to sail well
Yes I can vouch for that, I went from Optimist to Europa to Demon King with just a bit of practice in a Stockholm Sprite inbetween :o

A bit more info on Masts. I layed out my collection of Moth masts to compare measurements and was surprised to find that the Sprite mast was not near maximum length even though it is stepped on the spine. Maybe only a keel stepped mast would be over 20'
Attachments
S_20140116_135710.jpg
90's Carbon, 80's Magnum Needlespar, 70's Sprite Needlespar

alan williams
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by alan williams » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:25 am

Well Dave must have touched a nerve! Sarcasm really.Horneteers have always said that if you can race a Hornet in high wind you can sail anything within reason.
By the way I had a mast made from a amatuer radio hams Aerial. The most expensive part was the sail at £20 batterns extra from Mike Mac. Chelsea Morning called Hocus Pocus 3313.
Cheers Alan
Last edited by alan williams on Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bornagainmothie
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by bornagainmothie » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:32 am

A 90's carbon mast from Axeman - ignore the aluminium extension, (for occasional use on the magnum), boom would normally be bolted through bottom of the carbon heel plug.
Length overall is about 17'6"

80's Ali Needlespar from Magnum. 2 1/4" dia and with jumper strut to brace the lower section.
This one probably came from a Mag8 with a high foredeck as its been sleeved internally and extended. Length is 18'4"

70's Ali Needlespar from Stockholm Sprite. 1 7/8" dia about 19'4" long . Top has been repaired or extended at some time and much thinner top section than later masts.

All have black bands for 17' luff length and hounds about 7ft from the top band.

Lyndon
Attachments
S_20140116_135844.jpg
Hounds height similar on all
S_20140116_135920.jpg
Mast tops. Lined up at top band position

davidh
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by davidh » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:55 am

My Duflos had a 70s Needlespar which I think might have been part of the problem. Whatever it may have wanted to be, the tube had most of the characteristics of a scaffold pole - and a heavy duty one at that. Damnit, it was heavy! On the semi-circular hull secions there was nothing at all to give you any sense of stability.

I'm looking forward to seeing all these wonderful Moths out sailing - are you gathering around the 'candle' at Hunts?

D
David H

alan watson
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by alan watson » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:37 pm

She's beautiful do please try and bring her to one of the three CVRDA events that we want to give a bit of a moth focus to. These are (after some consultation and v informal survey of interest).....Hunts, Roadford and Banbury.

The aim is to sail admire chat and race together as part of the rally. Lyndon Ian and I are aiming to go to two we also are offering some support for long distance hard up Mothies for example double stacking lift or a floor or similar.

I have been sailing a Magnum 8 and it's delightful. The other thought is again finding a way to bring together in one place the fascinating history and story that this thread like so many other reveals.

As you may gather I have a huge passion for these boats and have enjoyed sailing them since my first a Magnum 5 called Tippy .....I wonder why ?

Alan

davidh
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by davidh » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:35 pm

Alan,

This (along with your post in the events section) is great news!

I'm still unsure of all the details but it is looking increasingly possible that there could be some exciting media possibilities coming up. I'm sure Chris B will conjure up a 'Cotton Challenge' at some point which is a newsworthy story and a lowrider Moth event is certainly one to focus on.

If the media opportunity happens then I'd be really up for working with yourself + nessa/hunts to do something of a feature. What will be key is being able to describe the boats and their significance, rather than the highly formulaic and long since done to death "smith did x up the beat only to loose to Y on the reach": Historically, yes, these things are important in the context of someone important, with a new design, winning races and pushing development ahead but otherwise, the boats will be 'the stars'.

Will you be at the dinghy show? I'm not on the speaker list this year so can have a beer under the organ at 1pm Saturday!

D
David H

PaulM
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by PaulM » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:50 pm

I'm glad to say the current UK Int. Moth website has now recreated the page with the scanned yearbooks here
http://www.internationalmoth.co.uk/contacts/yearbooks/

which include a lot of vital information for historians.

I have most of them from my days sailing Moths, between 1975 and 1993, also lots of sales literature, magazine cuttings and my own photos, and I'd be glad to help anyone who wants to compile an archive.

I'd suggest the first thing for anyone contemplating such a thing would be to get in touch with John Claridge, and if possible Chris Eyre and Sean Cox who had been in touch with Adam May when he was involved with the UK website.

Paul M

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Max McCarthy
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Max McCarthy » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:22 pm

It is funny, having had a quick glance at the yearbooks, it seems there was a skol one design. Does anyone know much about this? As, when I had my skol (mk1) it had a centreboard, not a daggerboard (as the skol [regate] one design description on the yearbook states). However, in this case, I thought it was pretty much established, that my old mk1 (now owned by Nessa) had a modification done to it to add the centreboard at some point. So, my question is this, how did the skol one design differ to the skol mk1? The other thing is, my skol had points for stays, but it says in the 1969 yearbook, that the skol would be unstayed - so; anyone have any info? Is the boat I had, even a skol?

By the way, Paul, thanks for posting that, lots of really great stuff in those yearbooks!

On a side note: David, and all,

Sorry to both hijack the thread, and for my ignorance, however, I plan to visit the dinghy show this year (as I have done the past two years). However, every year I seem to miss seeing the CVRDA 'contingent', at the show (even if there is no stall). So, could someone please let me know where the underneath of the organ is?

Again, sorry for my stupidity here!

Cheers,

Max
AC 298 TimeWarp
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337

JimC
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by JimC » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:14 am

Max McCarthy wrote:It is funny, having had a quick glance at the yearbooks, it seems there was a skol one design.
The way I'm reading it from a feature in the 69 mag and also the design guide I copied in earlier, is that there was never a Mk 1 and Mk2 by name. It looks as if the Skol started out with three prototypes, and then when they went into production there were two variations, SL and SD. The SD was also proposed as a one design, but so far I've seen no evidence that came off. The SL was lighter and had a daggerboard and by the feature dagger rudder too - very early for that. The SD was essentially the shape, but a heavier layoup and a pivoting centreboard. It also states that the SL was originally planned for an unstayed mast, but no comment on shrouds for the SD. There's no mention of a Skol Mk 2 until the 1979 yearbook.

I'm also getting bemused by my Skol III, because my reading of the year books so far suggests that Skols may have been out of production by Rondar before the numbers got up to 3517, but I have documentation that my boat was bought second hand as 3517 in May 1975, the previous owner is in the 75 yearbook, and she definitely carries a Rondar builders plaque. The 75 yearbook also gives me an original name: the distinctly uninspiring "Fred" !! The boat doesn't seem to have been built at the time of the 73 yearbook.

No evidence on when the new bottom might have happened so far... I have just found on thing though "Prices from £53:50" in 1972! I'd forgotten just how bad inflation was in those days - by 1979 it was over 100 quid just for a mast and boom!

Ditta
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Ditta » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:45 pm

Hi,
sorry for the slow reply. I went down to the shed a couple of days ago, armed with heat gun, extension lead and scarper. I had a really good go at the port side and transom area of the boat (see attached two photo).
What I found was no number, but no doubt a place just aft of the winglets where a plaque seemed to have been attached in the past. Thew screw holes and plaque surround are still visible on the photo I took.
Alas, no number. I had a really good scrape at both likely inside and outside areas, but, again no number or remnant of boat name.
However, there appeared to have been a large rectangular plaque at the inside of the transom too at some point, alas, missing again.
The boat was "improved" at some point. It looks like she was originally dark red/reddish brown with possibly a black transom. She was stripped, plaques taken off and holes filled and repainted with one pack paint to be white hulled and blue transomed with deck still in varnish. I am still to see the rudder and daggerboard, but she has definatly got a daggerboard rather than centreboard. I hope to get started on her in a couple of weeks.

Thank you for the invitation to your regattas. I'd love to come, but even Banbury is a mere 460 miles from here, Roadford will be nearer 600 one way so not too sure if I'll manage this year. I also suspect she'll take a while to float.
Please keep the suggestions coming.
Regards
Ditta
P1180011c.jpg
Sorry poor quality. You can see the screw holes of the plaque and the chine.

Wakehurst
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by Wakehurst » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:56 pm

Hi Ditta, I sailed moths from about 1970 to the mid eighties but I can't put a design to your boat.. But I would think that it may be a modified shelley design.

If anyone would want some insight into moths of that period above please post a 'post'.

Colin Walker, Ex 3180, 3510, 3566, 3827 + others!!

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PeterV
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by PeterV » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:10 pm

Colin, welcome to the wonderful world that is CVRDA!

Still sailing a Finn!
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash

bornagainmothie
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by bornagainmothie » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:59 pm

Hello Colin,
Yes we're very interested in all things Classic Moth. Its amazing how many are turning up recently and a lot of designs that we thought were long extinct. Any contributions to the chats are most welcome.

Would you have any info on my Sprite, K3222? We know some of the history which is in the for sale section, and after I bought it, restoration blog.

Wakehurst? thats another design I recall seeing listed somewhere? Please tell us more.....

Lyndon

alan williams
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Re: What kind of Moth is that?

Post by alan williams » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:56 am

Hi Lyndon
A lad called Martin Wheeler at Mayflower had a Wakehurst it seemed to go really well. Does anyone know if the most radical moth built in the sixties is still around Hannibal Crossing the Alps. This boat was very wide and had two sliding seats. Which lead eventually to them being banned. Lusted after this boat as 16 year old.
Cheers Al

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