Nat12 1713

an area to discuss dinghy developments
charlespsmith
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by charlespsmith »

Fugitive - N1713

We finally did it. Friends of friends kindly gave us 1713 - after storing her in a barn for I guess thirty years. (which is classic in itself) Name of "Fugitive", eight planks a side, glued - nothing as exotic as timber and ribs - but that's all we know. No builders plate. Not much idea about date but perhaps late fifties early sixties?

She is not in a good way poor lass but gluing up the inwales will be start towards keeping the shape. Sails alas are duff and will have to go as will the decks - where on earth do we get <i>nice</i> ply 1088?

The wooden mast bends the wrong way - may be some work with a weight and change on the spreader tension lines might help? Knees are split in two places (bit like mine) but replaceable. Transom gone at bottom of course and hog nibbled aft, but I guess that goes with the territory. Otherwise the hull planking seems to be pretty sound.

All advice will be MOST gratefully received. Will "Fugitive" be sailing by the time of the Frensham regatta - um, probably not - but we will do our best,

Kindest regards to all
Charles

Charles and Sheila Smith FPSC.
Charles Smith
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Post by Rupert »

Hi Charles, good to hear you have found your classic 12 at last! I can't help with her history, I'm afraid, but I can help with the ply. Robbins Timber in Bristol deliver plywood, and sell various grades. For Saskia's decks I used 4mm Tiger Elite, which is their stripy sepele ply - very pretty, but probebly not what the boat would have had originally (though I could be wrong!). They also sell "normal" looking ply called Robbins Elite, and I used the 3mm thickness of this to do Moth 533's decks, as it is cheaper, and they don't do the stripy ply in 3mm.
More info can be found at http://www.robbins.co.uk. They are good at delivering plywood, but can get other things wrong, and often spend an age cutting/planing wood.
Hope this helps - plenty of time till July!
Rupert
Alan Price
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:37 pm

Post by Alan Price »

Hello Charles.
My old copy of the National 12 Handbook has no details for this boat, only the name you have.
Sail numbers 1691 to 1811 are given as year 1959.
Looking forward to the Frensham bash
Alan
chris
Posts: 2474
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Post by chris »

Hallo Charles,
Squirty cream won't help you here by the sound of it!
Nearly all the other boats built that year seem to have been proctor mark 8, with very few exceptions. But since the handbook doesn't list even the designer it's probably a home build,home design.

If you buy new sails don't forget the original class rules - maximum price for sails....£5 but then the whole boat less sails was limited to £45. You won't even get enough ply to redeck her for that now.

I'm afraid I can only make the Sunday for Frensham this year - I have to earn my living on the saturday night unfortunately. I had also been looking forward to another stay at that very fine campsite - Clibbon Towers, but will have to miss out on the fun... shame!

Good luck with the knees.
Chris
Merlin 6, 507
chris
Posts: 2474
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Post by chris »

Sorry .....meant to say that I had some success with straightening a wooden mast that was seriously bent to one side. I used a wallpaper striper boiler, stuffed the pipe up the halyard and steamed it, for an hour. Seal all the holes except the top opening (you don't need to blow up the mast!) and seal the pipe/lower halyard hole. Tape, old towels etc. Support the mast between two trestles and counterweight the bend so that you overdo the straightening somewhat. If you can wrap the mast with old towels or something to keep it hotter that's good. Don't leave it too long before refitting diamonds. I didn't find the hot steam loosened the glue at all. (but yours might have a different glue!)
Failing that I think the only other method is to open it and reglue it.
Chris
chris
Posts: 2474
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Post by chris »

Now I remember... I only used one trestle and had the mast angled downhill to drain the condensation.
Chris
charlespsmith
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by charlespsmith »

How very nice to hear from you all. First of all thanks to Rupert who put me on to Robbins. Theirs is one of the most user friendly websites I've come across. Um, £5 isnt going to touch it Chris. As to the mast - I am going to get back to the owner and ask him if its the original - I think its much to too big - my previous nationals as far back as 933 had much lighter stuff And yes the glue lines have gone! Alan thank you for looking her up. There seems to be no information much and I am inclined to agree with everybody that this is a home build - but a pretty cute one judging by the woodwork. Jonathan emailed with the same information and also thinks its amateur. Anyhow I have posted pictures and a restoration diary on my web site at http://www.tradboat.co.uk mostly for fun so please have a look and a guess. Again thank you all for such prompt help - judging by what I now know about the hog, whipped cream is the ONLY answer

Cheers
Charles
Charles and Sheila
Charles Smith
chris
Posts: 2474
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Post by chris »

masts..
The wooden masts for 12s seem to be about 3 1/8th by 2 1/8th in cross section. If it's much larger, and bearing in mind it is probably home built it could be a cut down mast from a merlin. Their cross section is 3 5/8th by 2 1/8th (or 2 1/4). It wouldn't still be 25ft high by any chance?
If you need I have a sound wooden mast you are welcome to. I was told it was off a twelve. the length seems about right anyway. Needs only a bit of work. (deck stepped). Can give you more info if required.
Chris
nick clibborn
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:22 pm

Post by nick clibborn »

Yes, even as we speak, the massed ranks of garden staff at Clibborn Towers are tending and preparing the lush, rolling acres of this stately pile, ready for the rag, tag and bobtail who will visit for the CVRDA event at Frensham over the w/e of 15th/16th July.

Book your pitch early to avoid disappointment.

Nick
charlespsmith
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by charlespsmith »

We joined the N12 Assoc and now find that N1713 was first measured in March of 59. She was at the Desborough Club and measured there. Concensus is that she was a kit build to a MK8 Proctor design. I expected that 8s generally were decked aft but this one is not? Can that be right?

Funny thing is I have been around the industry for a while and don't ever remember a kit for an N12 - hull and bits maybe, but not a kit in Barrow Boat style, - does any one remember thes? Come to think of it I was in the army around then 59 so maybe had other things in mind.

Chris thanks so much fo help with mast - I may well take you up on it. I am just back from Belgium and will now go and measure the thing and come back. Grandson now usefully employed rubbing down boom.

Cheers
Charles & Sheila
Charles Smith
User avatar
JohnK
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:23 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Post by JohnK »

Hmm, Most (if not all) Chippendale MkVIIIs had stern decks with built in bouyancy (like my N1662 - http://www.national12.org/class/MarkVIII.htm), most (if not all) Wyche & Coppock ones didn't. N1707 & N1722 are listed as Holt designs, and Holt did sell kits (see May 5th's Yachts & Yachting N12 article).

Good luck with the retoration.

John
User avatar
Steve
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:16 pm
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Contact:

Post by Steve »

I'm pretty certain that Wyche & Coppock also sold Nat 12 kits

Steve
Steve Crook
Int. 12' Dinghy - NED486/SUI-4 - Einepyk
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Post by Rupert »

The Wyche and Coppock ad in Dinghy year book 1958 has them selling complete and part built boats, but no mention of kits. By 1961, they had given up giving any detail of what they sell in their ads completely, sadly.
Rupert
Mark
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Post by Mark »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Steve</i>
<br />I'm pretty certain that Wyche & Coppock also sold Nat 12 kits

Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes they did, 1571 was a home finished Proctor VI
Mark
RC Laser 898
Mirror 67423 Dawn Run
British Moth730 Moneybox
http://karencollyer.net
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Post by Rupert »

Home finished is different to flat packed mirror style, though?
Rupert
Post Reply