Proctor Centenary 2018

an area to discuss dinghy developments
davidh
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by davidh » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:34 am

Robert,

My researches to date (and they are already fairly extensive) so only one collaboration and that was right back at the very beginning.

The problem you face in what defines collaboration and what was just 'influence'. So we can say that Bucknell and Holt collaborated on the Mirror - and that Westell and Farrar collaborated on what would become the 505. In the same way, Milne collaborated with Westell on the Fireball - it was all very incestuous back then.

Yet another example - did the double chine hull of the Enterprise/Solo influence Ian Proctor when he was working on the Wayfarer - you would be hard pressed to deny that!

Somewhere I have a picture I took of my wall board - I was working on what would have been a calender poster for one of the sailing mag and it charted out the lines of dinghy development as seen through the influences one designer exerted onto another. There is plenty of discussion on this topic here on the forum, for it is a subject that reveals how the UK scene influenced dinghies elsewhere whilst at the same time, design here picked up the genes from other boats such as the round bilged French dinghies, European Sharpies and the Antipodean skiffs.

D
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trebor
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by trebor » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:46 pm

Going to stop asking you questions, won't be worth reading your article else or hear your lecture, must have patience and wait.
Robert
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Rupert
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by Rupert » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:38 pm

With only a year or so between the designs, it would be interesting to know when Proctor started work on the lines. Were there any earlier double chine hulls?

According to the Leader guys, there is also the influence of Gordon Pollard and Smallcraft on the design of the Wayfarer.
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trebor
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by trebor » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:43 pm

were the chines used to allow home builders to build using ply ?
Double chines to allow a more barrel shaped hull using ply ?
Robert
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Rupert
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by Rupert » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:28 am

Pretty much sums it up, yes. There are advantages to chines, but until then, the UK was very much into round bottomed boats. Look elsewhere, with different waters and wind strengths, and development looked rather different, too.
The double chine idea gives a simple way to build an approximately round bottomed boat, and looking at sales of Ents, Solos and Wayfarers, it obviously struck a chord with sailors. The roll tacking ability of the Enterprise, especially, made it ideal for small puddles and rivers, hence why, all these years on, it is so well suited to Sandwell Valley.
Rupert

davidh
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by davidh » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:53 pm

Check out my in-depth article on the Wayfarer in Y&Y (the mag) this summer!
Double chine offers a lot of advantages over the single chine hull BUT poses a lot more 'building' for the home boatbuilder.

What has to be remembered is that the Enterprise was originally meant to be 'more general purpose' than the GP 14! It was going to be the cruising boat par excellence - only to become the inland racer that few boats could match.

I'm not saying that there wasn't any influence from the Leader - or indeed to it, but I have nothing to support the suggestion - though quite a lot to negate it!

Proctor was, by then, at the height of his powers and got it so so right with the Wayfarer. I was hearing about the launch of the boat at Earls Court - and the queue of people determined to put down a deposit on the boat.

D
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Rupert
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by Rupert » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:35 am

The Leader is a scaled down Wayfarer, that's for sure, but with Gordon Pollard and Small Craft as designers. The story I've heard, which could well be revisionism at its best from what you are finding, is that they had a big hand in the Wayfarer being as it is, and basically didn't want to pay Proctor to design a smaller one, so did it themselves. There is also a story that the original Wanderer builders tried to buy the rights to the Leader in order to cut up the moulds and remove the competition.

Sadly, one of the things that went when cutting back on expenses was my Y&Y subscription, partly because of the money, and partly because decent articles were few and far between, and articles about sailing holidays becoming very repetitive. Will have to find a copy to read your Wayfarer article.
Rupert

aviateam
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Re: Proctor Centenary 2018

Post by aviateam » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:06 am

Here is the Olympia boat show brochure from Jan 1-11 1958 referring to the Small Craft stand number, welcoming the new Wayfarer.
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