Sails and other things

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Trevor C
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Sails and other things

Post by Trevor C » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:37 am

I am in the process of shopping about for a sail (genoa) for J9. The best quote has been from McNamara but I was wondering if anybody has any suggestions as to who else I might contact that would be interested in a sail for a CVRDA dinghy. Perhaps we could establish a link and get a CVRDA discount?
Uffa Fox Jolly Boat - J9
Mirror - 34359
Hornet - K140


Please see http://www.justgiving.com/160miles for my charity ride to Paris in May

roger
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Post by roger » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:46 am

Try Toby Barsley-Dale at Hyde sails. They are moving back into the one design dinghy market. Of course we can give them lots of publicity. Mention my name I know him quite well.

email is tobybarsley-dale @hydesails.co.uk

Garry R

Post by Garry R » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:49 am

I got my new suit of sails from Mike Mcnamara - very helpful indeed

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neil
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Post by neil » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:24 pm

I think Ed has his Jollyboat sails made by R & J - http://www.rjsails.co.uk/

They made my Tideway sails for me for a very reasonable price.
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Ed
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Post by Ed » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:33 pm

yeah...R&J have made up at least two sets of Jollyboat sails that I know about.

Banks have also made up a set recently - although they got the batten lengths a bit wrong.

I would happily go with R&J again.....although I suspect that Banks or McNamaras would be a smidge better.

You do need to take care about making sure you get what you want! As there is no standarisation in mast for the Jollyboat you do need to make sure you get a set of sails that works for the mast that you have.

I purposefully had my set cut to be quite flat as I was doing most sailing out of Cleveden at the time which can be a mite blowy.

You have also got to decide on what battens you want. Stictly speaking the rules say only a short batten up top, but the large roach is typical of Jollyboat sails (like classic 14s) and there is no doubt at all that the large roach is held up much much better by a full length top batten. The last two sets of Jollyboat sails that I know about, where both made with a full length top batten, but not over-length so sail looks pretty normal but roach is well held up.

this is out-of-class....but it is better...and if we formed a jollyboat association again it would be top of my agenda on rules changes. Personally I would certainly have it next time. Unless I chose to follow our antipodean friends and use a fully battened main ( I wish!)

I think the Pegasus has done much the same.

cheers

eib

ps I like the idea of striking a deal with a sail-maker....but I doubt you would ever be able to get a sufficient volume to make it work for them. Especially as there is no consistency in the class of boats for which we require sails.
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Pat
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Post by Pat » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:34 pm

Stick to a designer who was proven for the class when the boat and the mast were new. They know how to cut the sails to get the right fit.

roger
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Post by roger » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:45 pm

It might still be worth talking to Toby he is a top 5o5 and FD racer and understands about mast bend etc. Althuogh I have to agree its probably better to talk to someone who has already made some for a Jolly boat

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Trevor C
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Post by Trevor C » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:37 pm

I emailed Ratsey & L and the email was bounced so called them and spoke to a rather unhelpful lady. So, despite the fact that they made the last set for a previous owner they will not be making the next set for this owner. Thanks for the suggestions.
Uffa Fox Jolly Boat - J9
Mirror - 34359
Hornet - K140


Please see http://www.justgiving.com/160miles for my charity ride to Paris in May

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:11 pm

Sorry....could of told you.....

The dinghy section of Ratseys was sold/amlgamated with Banks.

That is why Rob got his set of Jollyboat sails made at Banks.

Banks now have all the records and measurements that belonged before to Ratseys.

HOWEVER....

Ratseys were nice because they were still made with rather a classic feel and touch....they looked just right on a 30 year old boat. Brown stiching....tabbling on the jib leach etc. You felt that Chris Ratsey was going to make them like he had been making them for the last 30 years.


The sails that came from Banks were just good normal modern cut sails.

I was also very suspect about them 'actually' having access to Ratseys records and sail measurements.....or otherwise how did they get the batten lengths wrong. Surely this would of been on their records.

So.....I did think that the Banks set of sails were very nice.....but they were very modern and personally I am not sure they were made to any original set of figures. They are not the easiest sails to set on a rigid old Proctor F which is pretty much like a scafolding pole. They looked to me like much more like they were cut to a generic new-type mast.

Who would I go to if money was not problem? Well McNamaras possibly or Batt Sails......now there is a funny thing!

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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Ed
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Email from Batt Sails - Great minds....

Post by Ed » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Recieved this today by email:

Does not say who it was from.....maybe Dick....maybe not?

Hello


Based as we are in Chichester Harbour we have become increasingly involved with small classic boats. You are probably aware that Bosham Sailing Club has a very active Classic Dayboat fleet and there is a healthy culture of traditional boats throughout this part of the world.


I started Batt Sails in the Thames Valley, where there are many older craft, from Thames Raters down to sailing punts, with many one-offs and classes such as the classic Merlin Rockets and International 14's. Moving to Bosham only widened our involvement.


I would like to expand my involvement with owners of classic boats so I wonder if your connections would help with this. Above all the task of making appropriate sails for classic and vintage boats demands a sympathetic approach to the needs of each individual craft.


Batt Sails Limited
Delling Lane
Bosham PO18 8NF
U.K.


01243 575505
http://www.battsails.com


There you go.....who wants to call them?

They won't be cheap, but I bet you they are bloody good.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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Ed
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Bit off the point but....

Post by Ed » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:25 pm

I am sure that I have told this story about Ratsey & Lapthorns but here goes anyway:

My original set of Jollyboat sails are dated 1965 and when I bought the boat in early 90s they were still absolutely brand new, hardly used at all.

After two or three years, they were looking a little tired and I decided to send them back to Ratseys for a clean and service.

I sent them off and after 3 weeks had heard nothing from them so I rang in to see how they were getting along. The girl on the phone said "Ah yes, they are in the book.....wait a sec I will find out. A long wait later she returns....Ur sorry....Not sure what has happened....but I don't seem to be able to find them...we definitely have taken delivery of them....I will have to ring you back. I was so worried I could hardly sleep.

The next day the phone rang and a very proper but rather apologetic voice said "Good Morning Mr Bremner, this is Chris Ratsey here..." My stomach dropped....they had obviously got the boss to ring me with the bad news....

Turned out it was quite the opposite.

Chris had seen them come in - recognised them as one of the first sets of sails he had ever made as an apprentice sail-maker and grabbed them up and took them home to show to his family.

He told me, "I wasn't going to let them loose on those sails.....I took them home and washed them in the bath and repaired them in the sitting room".

How was that for service?

I think it is a real pity that they stopped making classic dinghy sails....and to be honest from what I have seen Banks don't really come close.

But I think that BATT would.

cheers

eib



cheer
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

davidh
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Post by davidh » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:51 pm

I've bought sails from both Banks and Batt - and have been back to both with repeat orders so that must say something for them.

If I were going for new rags for a Merlin, or a peggie, or even a seafire (??) then I think that Batts would be my first port of call, They may not be the cheapest but his sails are good, well made - and quick!.

But for a Jollyboat? Well, that is, as the say, the exception to the rule.

For those then I'd be straight off to Banks at Locks Heath, where I'd ask to see Hugh Myers. Although Hugh is no longer so active out afloat he knows what it is to make a great set of FD sails - surely not a million miles away from those on a Jollyboat, he'd certainly be worth a chat too.

The other exception woul dhave to be for single handed sails, where to date I think Graham Scott, down in deepest and darkest Cornwall, cuts a lovely sail. He is not only a font of knowledge on the theory BUT he will take the time to explain what is needed. And ofr all you with hugely beneficial handicaps - he understands unstayed rigs too!!

But in the end - it is so much a matter of individual choice.....price, and if you have someone local, then see what they can do!

D
David H

nick
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Post by nick » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:56 pm

I asked Dick to quote me for making the new sails I have on the International 14. For whatever reason he declined to do so, so I went to Dave Dobrijevic in Emsworth. He had made several suits of sails for vintage Merlins, and made an excellent job of mine as anyone who went to Frensham or Netley can testify. Reasonably cheap too, as Dave D doesn't charge VAT. Suggest you look at his website, though this doesn't mention 'vintage' sails. http://www.dynamicsails.com

Regards

Nick
Int.14 839

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Post by nick » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:11 pm

For Roger, David, and anyone else considering the Netley Nationals - 2008. I had a long talk to Dick Batt today. He is keen to get involved making sails for vintage boats, and has already done several sets for Merlins and others. He has some good ideas about vintage stuff, for example handicapping Merlins by design and not by age.

But the main point is that if we hold the Nationals at Netley I think Dick might be up for a bit of sponsorship, worth trying anyway.

Nick

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Trevor C
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Post by Trevor C » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:52 pm

Dynamic have responded with a quote which is competetive. I have emailed Dick Batt who have asked some very appropriate questions and has Jollyboat experience too.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

I think there may be enough interest to have a couple of "informed" sailmakers as links. Even if there is not a discount for the CVRDA members it allows those sailmakers with an interest to be approached and may lead to sponsorship as David suggested.
Uffa Fox Jolly Boat - J9
Mirror - 34359
Hornet - K140


Please see http://www.justgiving.com/160miles for my charity ride to Paris in May

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