My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

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Michael Brigg
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
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My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:54 pm

Michael Brigg



Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 08 Oct 2007 22:59 Post subject: What have I got?

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I have an old Clinker 14 foot dinghy.

http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd31 ... eMoon1.jpg
Blue Moon Resized Cropped.jpg
(17.5 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
Here she is as I knew her as a boy. Now back home on my drive and ready to be worked on!

I have taken the quarter decking off to reveal an open racing dinghy complete with nicely rounded quarter knees and bowhook. In looks I was convinced initially that she was a Norfolk OD. but she has too many strakes (11, plus the garboard, I think a NOD has 10) and the frames are a little to close framed. (About every 4inches) although they are to widely spaced for an Uffa fox design unless his Clinker boats were not as closely spaced as a Carvel built design.
My grandfather aquired the boat possibly in Norfolk in the early or mid 1930's possibly 2nd hand and she has always been called "Blue Moon".
I am still hoping that she is a very early National 14 perhaps from the Norfolk conference although given her age I believe she could also be a true International 14!
Her shape is almost identical to an albacore or a redwing so I suspect she could be Uffa Fox inspired, Perhaps a copy from a Norfolk boatyard. There are no identifying builders marks. The mast gate forms a tabernackle suggesting a setup for The Broads, and My uncle recalls that she originally carried Bamboo spars. I woudnt put it past Herbert Woods to have rustled her up as a quick Copy as it seems he stole a march on Uffa Fox when he got his own design in quickly for the original NOD prototypes!
Jamie Campbell at ISCA has suggested (rather disappointingly) that my boat might be a "Still-born One design" as the angle of Bow entry is not vertical enough for a 14, but Im not convinced. I got hold of some old clinker 14 photos from Tommy Vaughan, the class historian and I thought my boat was a prety good match.
I was both excited and surprised to discover that there was indeed an International 14 named "Blue Moon" sail No K70. I was disapointed however to discover that someone else seems to be claiming to own this hull although they also own a Redwing and my boat was extensively sailed in Cornwall so there might be a connection! The thread on this is in the "Tittle Tattle" link Issue 3 Oct 2004.
My Blue moon is Mahogony on oak (I think) and is in really excellent condition so far as I can tell with only a few bits of soft wood around the stem. The mahogony (being best quality non replaceable rainforest quality, there being no qualms about such things when she was built) is almost good as new.
Blue Moon raced at St Mawes SC mostly in the Menagerie class in the immediate Post war years. The family of Sir Geoffrey Bird also owned a Pilot Cutter, "Blue Goose. and a motor yacht, "Blue Vision." and had one of a notable boat building family in their employ, Jimmy Green.
That is all I know about my boats history. My parents are sadly unable to recall any imformation about her.
I will try to post some pictures if I can find out how to get them on a web hosting set up.
Any Ideas about the boat??
Michael Brigg.
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Last edited by Michael Brigg on Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:40 pm, edited 11 times in total.
Michael Brigg

Michael Brigg
Posts: 1661
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:56 pm

Michael Brigg



Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 09 Oct 2007 09:04 Post subject:

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Hi David,
Blue Moon is presently with Haines Boatyard in Itchenor. She is in dry storage at their Lippering Farm facility, awaiting decisions as to how best to manage her restoration. This is why I am keen to get as accurate an ID as I can.
An alternative is to just sail her as found. A pedigree racing dinghy put out to grass as a family boat. Most of my memory of her is with a small outboard on the back pottering along the Thames at Runneymede. The addition of (Very) strong quarter decking has certainly helped to preserve the hull shape and with this in mind I would plan to have some strengthening arrangement built into her to allow a reasonably robust use.
She has an old 14 mast with her now with 3 sets of diamond crosstrees! Its not original howeverr and my uncle clearly recalls that she had a Bamboo mast. The boom may be original though and is a broad rectangular strure, about 9-10 fet length, stern sheeted and has a slot to take a sail foot.
The plate is Heavy iron, about 80lbs, typical of it's age with a good size leaver at its top end
I will certainly try to get some pictures on when I work out the technology!
As a busy GP (In spite of what government spin says we are) I havent the time to do my own restoration but I am prepared to spend a little money and will be keeping a careful record of any work. Haines boatyard are quite keen to enter the renovation and training market and will I am sure be very helpful.
I have just spent a Kings ransom on my Firefly F3184 and Blue Moon may take a bit more. I am banned from aquiring any new old boats until all my other old boats are sold (fat chance) or in full working order!
Michael Brigg.
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Michael Brigg

Michael Brigg
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Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:57 pm

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davidh



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 654
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Posted: 09 Oct 2007 08:24 Post subject:

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Michael,

that is some story - is there any chance of a picture?

I notice that there is a NOD (possibly) on ebay right now.

And...what are the spars like? Is the rig bermudan or gaff?

First Mark with the Dart dinghy and now this - things are really looking to be on the 'UP' as regards the identification and saving of real historical 'gems'!

Where is the boat now Michael - have you thought about recording the work you're doing on it?

David
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Michael Brigg

Michael Brigg
Posts: 1661
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Picture on Photobucket. 1st attempt.

Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:06 pm

It's all new technology but here goes.
Try this link..

http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd31 ... 20Project/

Hooray! it gets you to the right place...

This gets you to my album. For the rest of the pics click on the "view album link at the top right of the "photobucket " page. You will have to work your way past my firefly pictures but I'm sure you'll work out which is which.

Enjoy digest and please advise.

Michael.
Last edited by Michael Brigg on Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Michael Brigg

davidh
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Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Post by davidh » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:33 pm

Michael,

Love it - though I can see where the comment on the stem shape came from.

I spend quite a bit of time doing research on dinghies - it is part of the writing, so I'll start looking through my notes too.

I'm not sure as yet if there is a story in Blue Moon or not, until you start the digging around process you just don't know what you'll find.

I'm just along at the Hamble so can be easily reached - in the meantime, if you do want to start the process of 'historical recording' - just in case..... then get in touch via the website ( http://www.bearfacemedia.co.uk) and I'd love to grab some shots/facts and figures....and a bit on what your plans are for the boat.
Still time to make Netley 2008 too......

David
David H

Michael Brigg
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:05 pm

Its changing the subject rather but thinking of fireflies I've rather emptied my pockets on getting Flycatcher (F3184) sorted out and so Blue Moon has to come home for reasons of economy as demands for the new bathroom become ever more insistent!

I've put together some drawings of Blue Moon from measurements I've been taking over the past year. I wonder if these might help with the identification process? Click on the link and scoll through the album using the arrows to the top right of the web page.

http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd31 ... nPlans.jpg

General opinion says she is an East Coast boat perhaps circa 1928. I found a "Lady Yacht Club" burgee in her sailbag recently so I wonder if she might have come from the Herbert Woods yard and her startling resemblance to a Norfolk one design dinghy also makes me suspect this. She has no identifying marks, again a feature of his boats.

http://www.ladyyachtclub.co.uk/

The apparent rake on the bow has been confusing but the drawings do not in fact bear this out as a line extended from the straight hog under the plate case makes a perpendicular with the stem! This again suggests to me a forerunner of a 14, or a very early version of a Norfolk conference boat.

Other features: an Inwhale forward of the forward thwart. (Jamie Clarke suggested this is a feature of Morgan Giles boats). Two holes either side of the mast tabernacle suggest an original gunter rig. (A bit of an anomaly for a broads boat of that era which all tended to be Lug rigged.) Also the mast is stepped a little to far back to be a lug rig.

So perhaps the trail might warm up again. Anyone have any ideas about how to trace the origins of my boat?
Michael Brigg

Michael Brigg
Posts: 1661
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by Michael Brigg » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:26 pm

Temptation and impetuosity are the spice of life!

I bought Blue Moon home for putting into deep storage while I plan my next move. Starting with a thorough scrubbing out with kitchen flash and a hosing down with the power hose. Such a marvelous tool that one.

The lands cleaned up nicely but access was difficult with all those old deck beams on top. After sitting in the rain over the course of the week she has held all that the weather could throw at her tight as a drum so it seems taking up isn't going to be a problem.

Deep storage eh?!

I spent a bit of quality time this week end with my screw driver removing all the modifications. it only remains to "un-box" the stern thwart (currently a kind of "garden shed" arrangement in the stern,) to reveal her in all her naked birthday suit glory!

http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd31 ... 20Removal/?

action=view&current=BlueMoonRemovesuperstructure1630-15.jpg

Click the link the click on the blue album title above the picture ("Blue Moon Deck Removal") for the rest of the fun!

...Next Step?... timescales may vary but after clearing out the garage to make room (ha ha,) a spot of stripper is called for.... Watch this space.
Last edited by Michael Brigg on Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael Brigg

davidh
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by davidh » Tue May 27, 2008 8:35 pm

Michael,

re 'Blue Moon' and it's parentage (see.... I didn't forget, but it has been a slow process).

Working on the facts that we have; Your boat is old, very old, the lay up of the lands does not seem to match either a 14, nor a Norfolk One design - but the boat does have a whiff of the east coast about it....

I'm sat here looking at some pictures of early Burnham One Designs - and it could, just possibly, be a 'match'.

I need some more info but have heard that Dave C is due on the shores of the Solent this weekend (if we can't stop him at the Hampshire border that is) - he will be my next source of info.

But - I stress it is no more than a POSSIBLE match - but that is more than we have today!

D
David H

davidh
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by davidh » Wed May 28, 2008 12:19 pm

Michael,

Okay...more on Blue Moon.

Do you have, or can you get please, the overall beam?

Cheers

D
David H

Michael Brigg
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Location: Gosport, UK

Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by Michael Brigg » Thu May 29, 2008 1:31 pm

Hi David.

I am intrigued. Pictures would be great. I thought the RBOD was a Keel boat. It was initiated in 1932 and never built very many. The London Hospital Sailing Club used to have one (and the United Hospitals Sailing Club.)

Phalarope (RB8) was (and perhaps still is) a very leaky boat sailed I think by a medic (Tim Tressider?) and was a Bright Pink coulor scheme. I recall they are similar (if smaller and with a less sophisticated sail plan) to the XOD

The London's sailing club was a riverside cottage in Burnaham. Far more character and comfort than the UHSC barge. The then "commodore" was the Biochemistry Professor and purchased the cottage in the days when creative accounting allowed it to be called a laboratory! Many Biochemistry tutorials on the effects of Alcohol on sexual attraction were undertaken there.

Sadly political correctness has taken over and the Laboratory sold and its proceeds and considerable profit was swallowed up not by the college Sports budget, but the buildings budget for University of London, along with profits from sale of their playing fields as well. Shameless assett stripping hey ho.

I digress however!

Blue Moon has a Width (widest at 7-8 feet from Bow) of 5ft 8ins.

This links you to my Photobucket album of drawings I have made up. I dont vouch for absolute accuracy but its not bad.

I have an Email I recieved from a Norfolk based amatuer boat historian. It might interest you, not only for its interest but also as he is "getting on" he might be just one of those "resources" that should be taped for his knowledge. You discussed this in a previous string on the Jollyboat popping out of an upstairs window (in the YW Scow thead I think)

I'm having a problem with moving files at present but Ill let you have a copy when I've worked it out!
Michael Brigg

davidh
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by davidh » Thu May 29, 2008 2:29 pm

Michael,

You might be confusing there with a Brightlingsea OD - which was a great big heavy lump.

next mail will enclose a picture for you too drool over - that is if you are still experimenting with the effects of alcohol!

D
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by davidh » Thu May 29, 2008 2:39 pm

and here it is..............

I'll only send one shot, you cannot have too much excitement in one go!

D
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Michael Brigg
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by Michael Brigg » Thu May 29, 2008 3:04 pm

Be still my beating heart!!

Certainly looks promising but are these Clinker? (Cant see in the photo.)

Here is a quote from the history page of the Royal burnham Yacht Club;
A new One Design Class

During the years 1930 to 1935 the ex 24 ft. Class, all from 30 to 40 years old, continued to race from the Club, although gradually waning. By 1932 there were only four entered in Burnham Week. In 1936 there was none.

As the strength of the ex 24s faded, thought was given to finding yet another class. In July 1932 there was a proposal to adopt Stars, and other alternatives were considered. The final choice was between the X One Design Class, well established on the South Coast, and a new design by Norman Dallimore (Dally).

Dallys design was chosen and was bought by the the Club, with an agreement for a royalty to the designer of 1 guinea per boat from members and 3 guineas from non-members. Building commenced immediately at King and Sons.

They were transom sterned Bermudian sloops 20 ft. long overall and about 17 ft. on the waterline, with 6 8 beam and 3 3 draft. They were fairly heavy boats with an iron ballast keel on a long fin. Stan King, one of the Waterfronts well known characters, who died in 1985, worked on most of them. He said it was his job to plank up the starboard side, certainly of all the even numbers. The jib was on a roller and was rigged so that it could be pulled round to server as a spinnaker, a common system at the time, which is shown clearly in the photo. The roller could also be used for reefing, but the result was not very satisfactory. The cost of the complete boat was about 120. It was possible to distingiush between the Burnham and the Brightlingsea boats by a very slight difference in the line of the sheer.
This Dinghy has a "B" on the sail, which is also seen on a Norfolk One design so perhaps this is a picture of an "experimental" trial of a Norfolk" with what looks like an old International14 mast as I have a mast just like one of these on Blue Moon already!

More Pleeez : :D :D :D
Michael Brigg

davidh
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by davidh » Thu May 29, 2008 3:17 pm

Cor - there is no pleasing some people, they are never satisfied.

Okay............. here goes

Burnham 14
Length 14
Sail area 130 sq ft
Designer Based on a boat by George French

Sail marking A 'B', underlined, with number below it.

Have you been consulting that Ebay measuring tape again Michael?????????

David
David H

Michael Brigg
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Re: My 14 ft clinker. Blue Moon

Post by Michael Brigg » Thu May 29, 2008 4:47 pm

Well I'm always up for a bit of Biochemistry experimentation!

Sorry I seemed a doubting Thomas but one has to curb enthusiasm and I've had a few false alarms. My impression was you thought she was a Royal Burnham forerunner, I hadn't realised you were looking at Burnham Dinghy one designs in general.

What is interesting on this photo is the double shroud arrangement. One goes via a spreader and the rear shroud to the hounds. There is clear evidence of this arrangement on Blue Moon.

However... what would be the date of this kind of rig. I've very little information on this but I understood that even the bevelopment classes didn't introduce a bermudan rig until about the mid 30's or post War. Burnham was however a major scource of inovation at that time however wasn't it?
Michael Brigg

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