Epoxy or Varnish and other bits!

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davidh
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Post by davidh » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:00 pm

Just to pick up on the comment made about Blackfriars!

the advantage with this is that you can get it in colours as well as 'au natural'. Now whilst the idea of a staining varnish is well nigh sacriledge, there are times when this can be a real 'get out of jail card'. The decks on Unit 7 had been badly mistreated in the past and to get anything of a finish on them needed replacement. Yet they were structurally sound, plus I wanted to get the boat out afloat. So Blackfriars it was, it brushes out quite well and as long as you're prepared to apply several coats, will hide a multitude of sins.

I'm not sure who it was on here who recommended Blackfriars to me but, thanks - I'd certainly use it again in similar circumstances.

For Merlin 3025 though, it will have to be the bee knees, Blakes, as I want to give Chris a run for his money in the beauty stakes next year (not to mention having a nice looking boat!)

D
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Alan P.
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Post by Alan P. » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:08 pm

Sorry Richard but I just cannot remember how much West I used. It must be at least 10 years ago now. But it certainly was not 4kg! Seem to recall that 1kg was roughly the same sort of volume as 750ml of varnish/paint?
I do remember that I applied 2 coats but I think that this may have been a bit belt and braces although I have never picked up a knock or scrape that went through to the wood. The varnish has not been more than a sacrificial layer of sun screen really. Because of this, a few years later I put one coat on the external side of the bottom panels and then undercoated & glossed in the usual way. Again, picked up a few scrapes on beaches and slips over the years but nothing that went through to the wood. Epoxied OK 2041 too some years ago which I then owned for 6 years with the same results.
The lads have pointed out the downsides of using epoxy, but personally I have been very pleased with it and I'm sure it has saved me many hours of labour over the years.
The last lot of varnish I used in the spring was from B&Q but was NOT their own brand. It is "International Yacht Varnish" and "containing effective UV filters" In a red 750ml tin. £10.95
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Ed
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Post by Ed » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:18 am

I still havn't used G4 myself....although I have a 5lt tin downstairs waiting.

I kinda agree it just didn't seem right to be using a product called 'Pond Sealer' on a boat.

Mind you .....if this helps any....

Speaking to the guys who supply it down here in Cornwall....they told me:

Voss Bondaglass who make it are the same company as BondaMarine.

It was originally developed as a marine product, but they couldn't find a market for it, so stumbled on its use for sealing ponds....so went with the flow.

If you don't want to buy it out of a can called PondSealer, they have a range of other products with a range of names....some of which sound much more marine-like......Bonda-Clear comes to mind.

CFS assure me they are all the same - from the 15 year white to the Bonda Rust Primer - they just have various additives.

The only thing I would worry about, is that the PondSealer does not have any UV filters in it....so really you should put some varnish on top....or use a coat or two of the more expensive bonda-clear, which if memory serves...does have some.

hope helps.

For sure Varnish is a matter of choice of what works for you.

There is kind of a big difference between Tonkin Oil, G4, Epiphanes and a Blakes Varnish and they are all different to using Epoxy.

Its a personal thing....but I guess I prefer paints for painting and glues for gluing.

Whatever you choose....good luck

cheers

eib
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Garry R
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Post by Garry R » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:41 am

Only thing I can say about G4 is that if it keeps water in a pond then there is a good chance it will keep water out of a boat. Chris and I (Chris first of course) have both used G4 and I am very happy with it. I have used blakes Duragloss on top after a good rub down and it has shown no sign of coming off. Terrapin is G4 only I believe. One other thing Ed - hope the big tin hasn't gone off - it cures if it gets damp at all!!! I tend to decant it into smaller plastic containers to save opening and closing the large tin and letting in air/moisture.

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:58 am

Yes,

de-canting is a brilliant idea.

I will put it into 500ml plastic bottles. Stores much better like that. You have to do the same thing with Tonkins as once you open the tin, it goes off really quick.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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chris
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Post by chris » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:51 pm

Yes I used G4 on my albacore - so far so good. I was also told g4 started life as a marine product. One thing I do like about it over epoxy is its appearance .
It does to wood what real varnish does - draws out the beauty and depth of colour in timber like a good varnish. To me epoxy over wood just does not do this and leaves good timber looking aneamic.

John still hasn't got round to varnishing over the g4 on Terrapin (which I told him to do!) but the surface looks very sound stil after two seasons.

G4 will move with the timber which expoxy won't. - another plus.

Yes it needs a UV filter varnish over it. Like Garry I used Blakes Duragloss and liked the result.

RichardB2
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Post by RichardB2 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:41 pm

Chris,

The G4 route does seem an interesting interesting one. Am I correct that I read somewhere on this post that you must leave atleast a week for curing before applying any varnish on top of G4? I assume once it has cured (G4) a gentle wet & dry followed by varnish? How many coats would you recommend of G4 on the decks before applying varnish?

Many thanks


Richard

Garry R

Post by Garry R » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:37 pm

Not sure about Chris but I generally think of applying sealers and G4 until the surface is befginning to take a slight shine where I am going to varnish over it. Once that has been achieved I gave a good rub down with wet and dry after a couple of weeks (I was away over Christmas so it wasn't a big deal to wait) and start on the varnish coats. One other thing. On the inside of a clinker boat the runniness of G4 is such that you should really keep the coats thin as any surplus gathers at the lands but with G4 it goes cloudy where it forms a puddle and never seems to cure solid at all. So - go thinly and brush out well was my feeling. Hope this helps. By the way it is cheaper than any UCP you will buy!! And it seems very tough - I have it on the inside of Gannet un varnished and there is no sign of deterioration as Chris has found for Terrapin. I have varnished on the deck and the outer hull especially as it is exposed to UV as it is uncovered from one weekend to the next.

Pat
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Post by Pat » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:14 am

Hadn't realised Terrapin wasn't varnished as she looks so good even after two years!

chris
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Post by chris » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:36 am

If you have seen John's Grads you should know he doesn't believe in varnish!
PS good thing he doesn't read the forum!!!

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jpa_wfsc
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Post by jpa_wfsc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:39 am

Try SP systems 250.

Its a two part epoxy, clear, but suspended in a solvent. Once mixed the two parts have a Loooong pot life, the mix brushes very easily (very low viscocity) and very good penetration of the timber. Then the solvent evaporates and the two parts do their stuff - so the epoxy hardens in and on the wood surface. Resulting in a good surface to cut back and then varnish.

I tried it on my daughters oppie and with two coats of international varnish on top (SP must be over-covered as has no UV filters). Its lasting well so far. So I am now using it on the canoe. The canoe really needed re-decking but I am hoping the hardening and sealing effect of the soaked-in epoxy will extend the life for a few more seasons.
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chris
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Post by chris » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:53 am

Yes G4 can be cut back after a couple of days with wet and dry.
Another thing I like is that after three coats (which are put on in one day as you only leave a minimum time between coats) you have a very good ground built up. If you had done the traditional method of thinned coat ofvarnish plus more coats I guess you would need six coats to acheive the same build up of depth of varnish. and that would need 24hrs between coats.

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