Question about OK's

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LASERTOURIST
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Post by LASERTOURIST » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:26 pm

I sailed OK's and they did take some water (specially if you weren't quick enough to right up before water found it's ways in the front and rear tanks) ...back in the 70's Cockpit hatches often were plastic tubs held by a bungee passing in font of the centreboard case.
some had the control lines under deck (so many holes ),and no rubber mast sleeve.

In France there were many FFV endorsed molds for amateur builders and somebody had evolved a clever improved deck mould that had side tanks , making the cockpit wirtually dry when righting up (like a 420 or 470)...trouble is the class refused it on the (spurious ) grounds that if the helmsman was separated from his boat , the boat should not drift too fast so that the helmsman could swim after it.

Dont know if this stupid rule is still valid today..

To make those boats classs legal supposed sawing off most of the cockpit side tanks flanks....

I remenmber one of the first plastic OK's in our club that had been swamped during a bad weather race in La Rochelle...and unfortunately towed by a powerful diesel fishing boat, after the helmsman had been ecvacuated on an inflatable with head injuries.

The rescuers had tried to tow by the bow (and the inbuilt towing line in the bow had sawn the boat's bow from deck to chime and further, Then by the
gracefullly arched tip of the centreboard (broken) , then by the rudder (tearing apart a good piece of the transom with the rudder pintle) and then y what was left of the wooden mast....

It was repaired (the owner was not insured) and even won local races , but it was countless weekends to makine this OK seawortyy again....

Laser is clearly pure bliss in that respect.

Alan P.
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Post by Alan P. » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:16 am

What is it with forums?
Some facts are probably needed here but it's late and I cannot be arsed.

Rupert.
In reply to your original question, an OK will NOT come upright dry but will have enough water on board to steady and lower the boat to just the right height to be able to climb back in over the side easily should you have been unlucky and exited your craft. Open bailers, swear and sail off. Done.
Well,this is the Operator's instructions by your's truely and boy have I had some practise over the decades!.

Buy me a beer and I'll do you an OK capsize demo. Buy me two beers and I'll invert OK, sit on upturned hull whilst scratching head(picking nose= 3 beers), right OK, climb back in and finally sail off unaided.

No drama but it must have entertainment value? Not that I want to poach on Chris's patch
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Rupert
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Post by Rupert » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:15 am

Cheers Alan - sounds like a summer exercise!
Rupert

alan williams
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Post by alan williams » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:45 pm

DavidH My Finns a Taylor Doubled bottom and floats so high because of this it's a problem to get back into after a capsize. If I have caught it first ( got a leg on the plate). She's practically dry on righting.
Al

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Brookesy
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Post by Brookesy » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:58 pm

My Vanguard Finn also comes up reasonably dry unless my bulk has been on the plate, but even then sails dry very quickly.
The only Finn I had trouble bailing dry was the Raudaschl but the addition of a bow bag also sorted that problem by distributing the bouyancy better when she was on her side.
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Post by Mark » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:34 pm

Alan, bet you cannot earn two beers at Chippenham

BTW Can you remember which rudder you used at Chippenham ?
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Post by Pat » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:34 pm

Jammy lot - we just got the Radox award for repeatedly bathing together whilst learning the Merlin as it comes up so full of water and is impossible to sail unless you can bear away to a reach or run as it constantly tries to go head to wind when full.

Radox award has also gone to the senior instructor sitting on the upturned YW dayboat smoking a Hamlet. How many pints for that Alan?

Alan P.
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Post by Alan P. » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:55 pm

Yep, Mark. Chippenham is most definately not a two beer venue. In fact, it could prove challenging to earn one pint despite the fact that it could easily be described as a pint sized venue.

Pat, sailing a YW Dayboat inverted is probably the only way some excitement is going to be had. So no beers earned there.

My offer is a summer time bargain, Rupert. A winter version comes in a lot ,lot more expensive!
Last edited by Alan P. on Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by JimC » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:48 am

LASERTOURIST wrote:...trouble is the class refused it on the (spurious ) grounds that if the helmsman was separated from his boat , the boat should not drift too fast so that the helmsman could swim after it.
Not so spurious if its ever happened to you... Its happened to me twice, once on a reservoir so no big deal, once in the Solent and very unpleasant indeed. I will not now sail a boat with a sealed mast: I want it to invert.

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jpa_wfsc
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Post by jpa_wfsc » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:56 pm

LASERTOURIST wrote:...I will not now sail a boat with a sealed mast: I want it to invert.
... but have you read the RYA reports on entrapment below inverted boats? Certainly if you sail a trapeze boat you do not want it to invert... but thats a different discussion!

It is such a difficult balance because you are right - a single-hander drifting away from you on its side is going to leave you yards away in moments. In my OK / Phantom days when I fell out I used to keep hold of the mainsheet, so that a) the boat would capsize near me and b) I would be in touch with it. On the canoe I have as yet not capsized without an instant inversion...

Of course with the canoe you need Radox shower gel not Radox Bath salts... (no cockpit to drain afterwards, just a gallon or two of water pouring out of the various halyard slots in my (very non-airtight) mast!)
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Alan P.
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Post by Alan P. » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:50 pm

Looks like the OK is the boat for you then Jim

Take what was posted with as much salt as you can drink while capsized in the Solent.

There are several measurement rules regarding side deck size etc and "bouyancy within the cockpit area is permited under the side decks to a point not lower than 80mm below the sheerline" according to my copies of both the 1978 and 1994 class rules.
Ok class rules do'nt change that much or that often as, being an International class, this can be a bit long winded. However, a bang up to date copy can be had in the technical section at
http://www.okdinghy.co.uk
Perhaps these French boats were just plain out of class

It was always hammered into me to hang on and keep hanging on to something, anything at all during a capsize. Must be why my tiller extensions suddenly develop curves.
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Post by JimC » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:11 pm

jpa_wfsc wrote:
LASERTOURIST wrote:...I will not now sail a boat with a sealed mast: I want it to invert.
... but have you read the RYA reports on entrapment below inverted boats? Certainly if you sail a trapeze boat you do not want it to invert... but thats a different discussion!
I have, and I do want my trapeze boats to invert. Balance of risks...

LASERTOURIST
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Post by LASERTOURIST » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:59 pm

Hello!

I didn't say i preferred the boat to invert...hell no !
specially the first OK i had as it was an early sixties vintage (later sold to the bordeaux yachting museum ,albeit mast less and in poor condition, the third to be made in France) that one had crude inspection hatches on the deck instead of the inner face of the cockpit bulwarks ( ply wood bits with loose rubber seal and even looser bungees to keep them in place) it would have been full in a few minutes time ...seems it's Jim C who said that.

With the wooden mast a turtle capsize often meant a broken mast...and if it was a valuable Kjohelde /six or eight gluings masterpiece,it also meant a big hole in your savings;

With the first all plastic OK's (not just the hull) there was an opportunity to make a perfectly dry boat when uprighted (Laser cockpit style) and the guy who evolved the deck mold (in the early 70's) aimed just at that ...
but class rules refused that,(the move was under discussion in the OK class but not yet approved at the time)

The boats made with this deck mold were first refused by french OK class measurer and the owners had to saw off the cockpit flanks and yes fit the clumsy and fragile "class legal" inflatable vinyl sausages under the side decks

Remember that in those faraway times we were young , agile and slim, so swimming after the boat and climbing on the centreboard was no problem even if the OK is somewhat wider than the Laser ...but the class older ones objected with "what if tou are thrown unconscious by the boom hitting your head" ...possibly true, but though i have had quite my share of OK capsizes (a vicious beast she is downwind compared to the Laser , much more deathrolls) an of course dinghy booms hitting my head it was never that bad.

As for the boat going turtle , i dont like that at all and except if you think it will prevent you for drifting very far on an offshore wind day i would'nt do it ....specially with a hobie cat...if the mast hasent been scrupulously controlled and sealed with some kind of Sikaflex filler, it takes only minutes to be full and makes rightening the boat impossible (same thing true with Laser Top mast sections , had some tropuble with cheaper "compatible" top sections made for sailing school use)

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Post by RichardB2 » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:35 pm

Interesting topic this as I had only just asked a similar question on the OK website about bouyancy under the side decks. The response was:

Quote:

"Buoyancy.

I have never felt that there is a need for any more buoyancy. Bags under the sidedecks would not help a lot. The boat already floats very high in the water on its side and turtles easily, it doesn't really need to be any higher. When you right your boat with a full cockpit, the place where you would probably put these bags would be above the water anyway. I think you will find also that you don't need any more things in the cockpit.

If the boat is up to spec with the rules on buoyancy you will have plenty. Even the old boats without a front bulkhead were not bad in ordinary sailing. There were some problems with some sea conditions where we needed to restrict the underdeck water and channel what came down the mast back to the cockpit."


Quote:

"rule 9.2 says Additional buoyancy within the cockpit area is permitted under the side decks to a point not lower than 80mm below the sheerline. This buoyancy shall not be included in the
requirements of rule 9.1.

they experimented with extra buoyancy under the sidedecks in the very early days but the boat floated too high and proved too dangerous cos people couldn't reach the centerboard to right the boat".


Have a good Christmas everyone.


Cheers


Richard -Ok 1946

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