Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

[will]

There is a website made by Steve Greaves showing his restoration from a Mk3 to a Mk4
http://www.cumulus1867.co.uk/
Might be of interest.
Cheers
Will

[Garry R]

Excellent website - wish I had seen the stripper links before I started. Too late now though.

[Garry R]

Gozzy there is G4 which arrives in a blue tin and there is DampSeal G4 as well - I did order G4 but the Damp Seal arrived but looks to me the same product. I have now used both on different boats and have been very pleased with the results. Make sure it doesn't form pools as they never seem to cure and go opaque. Give yourself a full day for putting it on - 3 coats about 3-4hours apart. Once it dries then you will have to rub down to abrade it - even if you are putting on another coat of G4. You will be doing this anyhow for the final coats with Blakes or whatever but you will also want to avoid the sanding as much as possible. On the website mentioned above there is a nice homemade tool for fairing the hull using doorknobs as handles - will be making one up tomorrow now I am approaching the finishing line.

[gozzy]

Cheers Garry,

Have you got any advice for me on the type of join I should use for the cb case. Full details in earlier post.
I'm pPlanning a pure weekend of boat love (sounds a bit wrong

Thanks

[Garry R]

I did not have to do my centreboard case but also I had not realised that you were attenpting a repair. I thought that you were cutting out a new case both sides using the original as a template. A butt joint will have little or no strength so you have to stagger it somehow and ply lends itself to that as Rupert has outlined. The sad fact about boat repair is that it is expensive - I reckon that I have spent about £200+ on Vivette and probably more hidden stuff to come. However the bottom line is that once you have it all apart then it's best to do the job right as it will be a hassle later on and you may have to undo all the effort you have already put in. I have learnt that from experience.

[gozzy]

Yea I was planning on doing a new case but money made me lean towards a repair. The issue is the ply is now all cut so my only option is a repair. Just read Ruperts post again and he does answer my question so I will split the casing again and use a halving joint to re-attach.
I do have a lot of shavings from the original wood - is there any point in grinding these up and using in the epoxy as a filler to try to match and cover the joins I create?

Thanks

[Garry R]

Dont think it is worth it - You want to concentrate on making the joints as tight as possible. Sharp tools and accurate cutting is the way to go. Even sharpening chisels to a razor edge takes a skill which I certainly haven't mastered yet but I am getting better at it.

[gozzy]

I decided to do redo the joints using halving joints. I decided first to remove the outer veneer from the case so I could get it nice and flat ready to do the joints. After removing the veneer the wood left is very flimsy. If I hold the peice at one end its bends into a half circle.

Its looking like the wood is too weak wothout the veneer to do anything with. I noticed on Robbins site they do a:
Stripey Sapele Faced Marine BS1088
Unique to Robbins Timber - 1.00mm Sapele veneer on ROBBINS ELITE
marine ply. Lightweight & specifically designed for dinghy/canoe decks etc.

Could this be similar to the wood on my boat - needless to say im going to have to create new peices and order from Robbins again - gutted!

To try to use the wood I have is it ok to join 3 peices of the ply on top of each other to create the 2 thicker inserts at the front and back of the casing?

I have put some new pics up for you experts to look at if you can http://www.axmi49.dsl.pipex.com/project%201.3.08.html

Thanks

[Rupert]

The stripy sepele is great for decks but looks nothing like the ply inside a Firefly. Closest I've ever got to that was cheap stuff from a general timber merchant, but the normal Elite isn't too far off.
The 1/2 thickness of ply will be very bendy, but, unless I'm reading it wrong, once you have done the joint, you will be back to full strength?
I have ofthen joined thin ply together to make thicker pieces, but try to get the new outer sides with the grain running the same way...

[gozzy]

Sorry I dont think I explained myself right.

I wasnt planning on getting the Sapele. I am going to buy more marine ply and just cut a whole new case out completely.

The wood on my cb case has been repaired previously. I just mentioned the Robbins Sapele as it seemed similar, just seeing if anyone knew what the wood on my cas was.

The first 2 pics on my site show each side peice of the original cb case. The left peice shows how flimsy the ply is once the outer veneer is removed. The right one is in its original state, im thinking I should'nt have removed the veneer but i was expecting it to be ply behind. Could it just be that the ply is just too worn?

I am going to work on the hull now instead while I source some new ply.

PS Also noticed my pics look like the wood on the right is supported, neither peice are supported at the end, they're just hanging of the top of the cupboard.

[Garry R]

The plywood on Vivette's case is plain marine plywood . I wonder whether what you think is veneer is in fact a delaminating outer ply skin. After all the case is made with a single piece of ply both sides and then the top and bottom bracing pieces are put in. I am not clear where this "veneer" is positioned. So the short answer is use marine ply - sapele was not used on old Fireflies.

I was present at the sad demise of a Firefly at the weekend in Inverness. The boat is painted inside and out and Bill is moving house and has decided thaat there really is no hope for her rot in the stem, hog etc (and he has bought another). We got to talking about your boat and wondered if the centreboard case might be OK on it. I suggest you contact him - Bill Sylvester - he has posted on the site in the wanted section when he was looking for a mast. The boat will be cut up imminently.

[Ed]

Gary

please do ask Bill to try and save the mahogany from the Firefly. It seems a great pity to burn that too.

No reason why it can't be re-cycled into something else.

The thwart, the transom, the tank-ends and even bits of the hog and stem can easily be used for another project and it just seems a crime to burn it when there isn't much left like it in the world.

cheers

eib

[gozzy]

Excellent news Garry,

I tried looking but could'nt find him, can you please give me his email or paa him mine its lgkeano@hotmail.com.

Just looked at your latest pics of Vivette - looking good mate hope mine goes as well!

Cheers

[Michael Brigg]

BIll sylvester is actually quite an active contributer to the forum. He is on the members list at number 192 on page 4 of the members list. He was last seen driving a Volvo around the bottom of the lake without a centreplate, (or something like that according to his last posting which is on the forum as "Built like a Tank!")

Just as we like our "Canine" boats I rather liked my Volvo 340 (am I sad?) but i confess I would have preferred one of these, unveiled today at the Geneva BoatX sorry, Car show.

http://www.rinspeed.com/pages/cars/squb ... -fotos.htm

Unsurprisingly it has "zero emissions" though the passengers seem to be quite windy.

Well enough of that. I to might like a piece of Bill's boat especially the bow stem forestay attachment and the brass shaped keel band at the front and back of the plate. Oh, and the bottom of his reynolds if it's in decent condition.

Which brings us neatly back on track for this thread which is about Plate case repair. I looked in on Hillhead marine yesterday and yes they do have some (Only a few) nylon plate case rollers for slotted plates. They were on sale as replacement pulley wheels. They measure just over 2mm less than the build spec which is presumably to allow for a thinner plate case after a liner has been fitted. So Gozzy if you are going to end up rebuilding the case (assuming Bill's case cant be used) and adding a liner for a few pence more it might be worth investing a few penny worth of tar in getting one of these rare items

Incidentally Gozzy I don't think anyone has congratulated you on the longest running forum with the most contributions (and viewings) in the history of the site! Not bad for a first posting.

And finally Ed and or Rupert. There's only one pair left so i'll have to offer them to Ed as the first request and Rupert second. Not cheap I'm afraid.
The alternative is to put slightly oversized standard bags under a shaped strong fabric bag cover. As well as being the best way of preventing puncture these are also the only way to prevent the possibility of an embarrasing loss of bags after capsize so the bag shape is perhaps less important.

[Ed]

what is the price then?

at the moment I have exactly what you describe.....oblong bags under shaped covers.

They used to have a set of the tapered bags but one of them blew out on the motorway and got blitzed by a lorry.....I was gutted.

cheers

eib