Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

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gozzy
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by gozzy »

Your right Ed no excuse now,

Im going to take pot luck and order from Robbins tomorrow (hopefully I will get all perfectly matching wood :lol: ).
Im going to go with a 1/4 sheet of 5mm Elite Ply for the casing and do some serious repair work to save some coin.

The varnish idea opens a whole other avenue that I didnt really acknowledge before so I will do some research on it - thanks for another good tip :D

Is the following going to be enough to coat the inside of the casing fully, glue the centreboard casing, hog and veneers down? Hopefully I can do this and then decide on the final finish.

West A Pack 1,2kg 105 with 205/206 £26.03
405 0,15kg Filleting Blend £7.64


As ever thanks to everyone for all the advice
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Ed
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Ed »

I think an A pack should be plenty for all your glueing needs.

I meant to say last time....and I would be interested in Rupert/Michael's opinion....

Some Fireflies (post Fairey) have a lined case with a laminate lining. I don't think this is too bad an idea. I reckon it must make it easier to pull up the plate and should last longer as it provides good protection to the wood.

Do you still have the little roller or bearing that sits on the bolt and takes the plate on it? These are a sod to replace if lost or worn out. If you have the original one.....then it might be a bit on the wide side if you are re-building your case and trying to build it as thin as the class rules allow. You used to be able to get them from Tony Pink who had had some made up in nylon at Hillhead marine.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
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gozzy
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by gozzy »

Well finally got my wood - really happy with robbins timber good match on the veneers - thanks Ed

Ive started fixing the centreboard case and the pics are at http://www.axmi49.dsl.pipex.com/woodarrived.html

Can you take a look and give me join opinions please?

Thanks
gozzy
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by gozzy »

Hi can anyone advise please?
Rupert
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Rupert »

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are needing help with?
Rupert
gozzy
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by gozzy »

Hi
I just wanted people to take a look at the way I am joining the new ply to the old to see if its correct or not?
Thanks
Rupert
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Rupert »

I confess I think once I had the case out of the boat I would have been tempted to put complete news sides on. But a halving joint, as you are doing, is a perfectly acceptable way of joining ply, and will be plenty strong enough. Saves on feather edges from a scarph, which are a bugger to get looking right. One other way is to cut through the top veneer as a butt joint and scarph the middle veneer(s) - probebly worth doing on fatter ply than 4 or 6mm.
Rupert
gozzy
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by gozzy »

Cheers for the reply Rupert

I actually just butt joined all the peices of ply. Would it be best to start again and scarf join the peices?
The join look doesnt really matter as I am planning on getting some mahogany type veneers (close to original) and re-cover the outside of the case.

Thanks
Michael Brigg
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Michael Brigg »

Some Fireflies (post Fairey) have a lined case with a laminate lining. I don't think this is too bad an idea. I reckon it must make it easier to pull up the plate and should last longer as it provides good protection to the wood.

Do you still have the little roller or bearing that sits on the bolt and takes the plate on it? These are a sod to replace if lost or worn out. If you have the original one.....then it might be a bit on the wide side if you are re-building your case and trying to build it as thin as the class rules allow. You used to be able to get them from Tony Pink who had had some made up in nylon at Hillhead marine.
Ed,s queries though I don't claim to be a rule expert or measurer. I took a quick look at the class rules relating to the plate and would note the following:

1) A "non-metallic" liner is permitted to the inside of the plate case of not more than 1.5mm thickness. I think this rule was introduces to allow racing pundits who had lined their plates with formica to stay in class.

2) The Internal width of the plate case is 16mm +/- 3mm. (A surprising degree of tolerance I thought. Presumably A minimum of 13mm is desirable but anything less willdisqualify the boat even if you try to line the measurers pockets with gold. (Which as noted in (1) would also be an illegal plate case liner)

3) The Plate thickness may be between 7.7-8.3 mm. Presumably to allow for anodising processes.

4) If you have a "Slotted" plate the rules appear to specify that you must have the roller. The new fireflies have no slot. Just a bolt hole so there is no possibility of fore and aft movement and I suspect a much bigger jolt when yu run aground. The advantage is that they dont drop out when you turn turtle which is much more likely in a Mark4/plastic boat as they are so much more bouyant on the capsize. I live just round the corner from Hillhead marina and could check out the supply if you like. (Unfortunately Mr Pink has passed on and his wife (who was always good for a wind up if you talked about the new mirror bermudan rig!) sold the business but the new chap is very keen and may be able to help.

5) finally, No restriction of the plate movement is allowed. ie: I suspect anything that allows a hint of a "jybing" plate will not be acceptable, although I wouldn't put it past some clever fellow to build up layers of epoxy on the inside of the plate to allow some degree of windward feathering to improve upwind performance. Remember these are relatively slow boats so small improvements in boat speed are critical.
Michael Brigg
Rupert
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Rupert »

Not sure a butt joint on 4mm ply will hold, even with epoxy. A halving joint, where you remove 1/2 the ply from each piece you are joining and then just squish them together with epoxy is certainly the easiest.
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Ed
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Ed »

Gozzy,

Sorry not to answer before....I wasn't sure what to advise really....

What little boat-building skills I have acquired over the years was mainly learnt from a mate in Bristol who was trained as a cabinet maker, but had spent a fair bit of time fitting out boats in the harbour. I would always go and say "What about doing it this way....." or "I was thinking of....." and he would always answer...."No Ed....do it properly...." and then tell me some method which seemed to me to be twice as complicated, take four times as long and involved totally taking the whole boat apart.

Sometimes I took his advice and always felt happy with the job I had done at the end, other times I would try my way and nearly always regretted it. If I did it my way, he would always come by and see what I was doing and say "Not turned out so bad then...." and run his hand or eye over it. But by then I would know that he had been right in the first place.

I am still by nature a bodger, although my bodges can look quite well turned out at times, but now when people ask me for advice, I have learnt that I can only really say....."No....do it properly"

I am afraid that 'properly' means replacing the whole case in Robbins Elite. Don't try and patch it. Don't cover it in veneer. It will end up taking longer, be less strong and not look so good. If you cover in a veneer, people (well silly old buggers like me) will notice it and suspect that whatever is underneath....is buggered. This is also likely to happen as most of the rott in a centre-board case comes from the inside to out....so sorry, I don't think it is a great idea. You have done all the hard work. Now you just have to finish it off. It really will be less work than pissing about with veneers and stuff.

Make a new case. If you can't get an accurate shape from the old bits ( I think you will), then try asking around, someone will be able to send you some kind of template.

Regarding the formica inserts on the c-board case.......I wouldn't really recommend to anyone to try and apply these to a centre-board case without taking it entirely apart and out of boat. I say this with the sorry experience of trying myself to do it in situ......what a f-up!! If anyone can do it....they get my hearty applause.

But if the case is apart it seems like a good idea - the plate moves easily and the inside of the case is protected from scraping and water ingress. I am sure I have seen some later wood boats (Knight and Pink?) that had this and presumed they were built like that. But I never saw it as a way of getting around or bending the rules. I would just recommend the case is built with gap to a safe minimum (remembering that it does tend to shrink in a bit over the years).

Tony Pink used to sell the rollers in two thicknesses one for the standard case and one for later thinner cases. I hope Hillhead Marine has some.....but if they do, reckon CVRDA should just buy em for future use. Oh....and if Michael, you are going to Hillhead Marine....they also used to sell stern quarter crewsaver bags in the original tapered shape (as per Fairey Bags), although Crewsaver totally denied it. If they still have any of those....I would love to buy a set.

Cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Rupert
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Rupert »

Make that 2 sets!
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Michael Brigg
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by Michael Brigg »

Crewsaver is based in Gosport so I think (or so Mrs Pink told me) he had a special order made up from them. Last time I went in there I got another pair and then found my old pair but I'm keeping those for spares. I'll certainly look in to see what they've got (and incidentally they also have side bags for the Mark2 owners but the supply was limited last time I looked.) I'll see if I can look in today as I'm off to Chichester for some shopping. The commision is @ 1pint per bag (depending on how late it is.)
Michael Brigg
gozzy
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by gozzy »

Hi Ed, Rupert, Michael and thanks for the replies,

I take on board what your saying about ease and final finish by using a complete peice of ply. However as Ive bought all the wood and cant really afford anymore outlay (still have to get varnish) im a bit stuck.

My original plan was to try to restore to a really good finish. I would love to do it oneday but my current situation means I will need to make do and get the best I can. I dont however, want to be selling her on after a couple of years and leaving someone with the same problems.

I wasnt planning on lining the inside of the case as that will be hidden anyway. The old casing does have a veneer on the outside, so is this not standard i.e is the normal cb case just 1 peice of ply? If this is the case I could split the newly attached peices and create cleaner joins. Can anyone recommend the best join to use?

Cheers lads
gozzy
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Re: Firefly MKII Centreboard Case

Post by gozzy »

Also I know G4 has been mentioned - does anyone have a link to the type thats been used successfully?

Thanks
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