New paint over old

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Ianphot
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Post by Ianphot » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:59 am

Just starting to restore an old Bell GP14 - reasonable condition and not too much to renew except paint and varnish - need a bit of help in painting over a sound looking coat of dark pink (OK- light red?) on the hull. I don't know what kind of paint this is and would appreciate advice on what type of paint to use over it. I'm hoping that a light sanding will be adequate preparation as the existing paint is now fairly matt with age.

Also - is it worth trying to re-finish grey looking ply decks or should I replace and make the varnishing easier. - Hoping for a glorious shiny finish like the dinghy show specimens!!

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Trevor C
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Post by Trevor C » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:37 am

Sorry, but I can't help with the first question but on the decks I would strip thoroughly and then use TBS wood cleaner to remove most of the marks & staining. This may be available elsewhere but I buy from http://www.tradboats.com and they are very helpful too.
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Ed
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Post by Ed » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:37 am

Painting over an old paint is always a little bit of a gamble, as the strength of the whole covering will only be as good as the joint between the old paint and the wood, which is what tends to go first. So be careful....but as long as you give a good sanding and make sure that none of it is in the least bit loose and you should be ok.

As for what paint, if it is that old, it shouldn't really make any difference what you use....so its up to you. Been lots of discussions on what is best recently on list...don't really think I can add to that.

As far as decks go.....no....if decks are looking grey, this is not because of the varnish but because of the wood and you will need to take all the varnish off and clean the wood before you varnish again. Sorry....it's out with the nitromors. As for how to do all of this....there are some notes in the hints and tips section, but please feel free to ask as there are lots of experts here on the list :-)

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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Ed
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Post by Ed » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:27 pm

TBS .....are interesting....

I have been using Netrol for a while now.....and had reasonable results, but Neil has recently had a complete disaster using it...and we don't really know why - have put it down to a new formulation as they have also given it a new packaging.

Tell me more about TBS?

Use diluted or neat?
With water or not?
Oxalic acid based?

How do you use it?
Does it go on bleaching after you have washed it out?
Does it work with all woods?
Any problems where it comes into touch with copper nails etc?

Does it remove black stains...or just horrible greyness?
What does it do to other wood that is 'ok'

Sorry about number of questions....but this is often a hot topic and I am always trying to find new ways of 'cleaning' or 'brightening up' old faded mahogany rather than simple sanding the top 1/16in off!!!

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
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Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Garry R
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Post by Garry R » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:27 pm

In my experience (limited) when there is that grey colour there seems just to be one thing to do and that is to sand until you see brown again!! You are going to have to sand anyway before varnishing, irrespective of the colour, just to ensure you have a clean surface and the grey doesn't go that deep. Main problem is if someone has been there before and you are sanding a very thin veneer and you may cut through it. However if you have enough to go at without wearing away the plank then you ARE going to look after her in the future - aren't you? And so you won't need to cut into wood again. Just my thoughts and so back to decking Merlin 111 and filling holes and sanding and sanding and sanding..........

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:37 pm

Well funny you should say that....just come upstairs from cleaning up the mast, gunter and boom of the old Tideway that I am restoring.

The top of the mast was completely grey....no colour at all, with quite a bit of black too, fading up to quite reasonable colour at the base. It had been varnished with polyurethane and then left outside so it had those marks left by partial breakdown of a hard varnish, you know where some bits are ok and others have gone completely black....looks a bit like leopard spots.

Anyway, I applied copious amounts of nitormors and then scraped back to wood, however despite some sanding, I could not do anything with the grey marks. Suspect wood is pine, or maybe spruce (doubt it).

Then I used the last of my Netrol cleaner....and after 30mins or so, a good scrub and a good blast with a power washer, it looks quite acceptable. Still some loss of colour in the top....but there is colour all the way up and I am happy as punch!

Problem is that this is the last of my current batch of Netrol and the recent experiences that Neil has had with Netrol where all his oak was turned black has made us suspect that there is a new formula to go with the new packaging.

I will be pissed off if I can't get it any more, which is why I was asking about the TBS. Anyway, although I was sceptical at first, I have now had two real sucsesses with Netrol (also took all grey out of hull of Fairey Int 14).

It is true that they seem to do somethings better than others....but they do clean up agba and lighter mahoganys and also pine. I have had mixed sucsess with heavily faded mahogany, but strangely enough it only seems to be solid mahogany that really fades badly, ply normally seems to recover after a good scrape with a cabinet scraper or glass.

Any other thoughts on wood cleaners (accept please the advice to not open them due to the inherent danger in Oxalic Acid). Neil, did you ever find anyting out from Owatrol re the formula for Netrol?

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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Trevor C
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Post by Trevor C » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:41 am

TBS WOODCLEANER - Comment from John at tradboats.com
This is oxalic acid and it works well. In front of my wheelhouse no matter what I use it picks up wet during the season and the black stains appear. I usually mix two melanges using two pack at £5 each. The very strong mixture I use on black to get it nearly back to normal and then the weaker mix to finish. You must make sure you rinse down well especially the side of the boat. I can still see that chap in a marina with a lovely paint finish that finished up looking like a zebra!!!!! Plenty of fresh water. Even using Le Tonkinois Varnish the damp still penetrates where the wheelhouse sits on the cabin top. She that is Sweet Promise (a misnomer if ever for a name) works. In a seaway she creaks and groans and I expect the seal on the quadrant has degraded so allowing water to come up. Its no big deal as she is not pretentious but like most owners I try----- and Maureen states I amtrying............... John
Use diluted.With freshwater.
Follow simple insructions on packet
Scrub on with a hard brush and work well into the grain. leave about I hr then wash off. Lots of fresh water.
No it does notr go on bleaching after youi have rinsed well
Works on all woods and does not harm copper nails
Removes black stains
Brightens up the wood by bleaching out the stains
Uffa Fox Jolly Boat - J9
Mirror - 34359
Hornet - K140


Please see http://www.justgiving.com/160miles for my charity ride to Paris in May

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