Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

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RichardB2
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Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by RichardB2 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:48 am

Hello!

After some more advice please! :mrgreen:

I am restoring MR 908, a Proctor IXC and have converted the boat to a deck step for a few reasons the most important to me being that I can obtain 2nd hand masts more easily that are set up for deck stepped rigs. To convert from Hog to deck step I have infilled the mast gate with some mahogany, in put in two king posts from underside of infill to hog and epoxy glued in situ this will be further re-enforced by screwing top and bottom of king posts.

The question is........ now that I have done the conversion, on the basis that original Merlins were deck stepped, and given that the loads are fairly minimal on a vintage boat, albeit still relatively high, am I correct in assuming that with king posts in place the loads will be transferred to the hog as if it were hog stepped?

Thanks in advance.

Richard Battey

MR 908
MR2601 ( in need of TLC)
OK1946

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Ancient Geek
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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:13 am

Yes.
Some boats of your vintage notably those owned and sailed by Robin Judah sought to spread the loads further by two strops (One on each side.) from the base of the shroud attachment to the hull to the mast step the fleet as a whole remained unconvinced!
Simples.

Garry R

Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by Garry R » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:21 am

I have always assumed so Richard. Gannet is ribbed and roved but also deck stepped as is Secret Water and both have king posts. The main problem as I see it is that the older boats can't take a great deal of tension so it is important that you don't overdo it. Secret Water has the halyard acting as the forestay system beloved of the rotating amst brigade while on Gannet I have a Highfield lever which I don't overtension just in case. I suppose that the main problem is that you just open up the planks and the water comes in, which, if the hog is soft (most likely if it hasn't been completely renewed) is going to make matters worse. Incidentally if you don't support the boat really well in the appropriate place when on the launch trolley in the dinghy park the bottom of the king post is precisely where the water lies and the very place where rot can start. Prop it well up at the bow and it ends up at the transom - so you can't win. I now run a small piece of rag through the bungs on the transom and this really does wick away any rain water when it ends up there and it drips away no problem on to the ground.

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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by jpa_wfsc » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:23 am

Hi;

The main reason you would ever want to deck step an old Merlin is to fit a canting rig - this is done by some so they have a modern carbon, canting rig on a hull that is narrow and suitable for the occasional restricted water event. And even then, only on hulls with a low forward tank (rather than a full height tank or just a bow bag). There are several arcticles on the MR site about this; for example http://209.85.229.132/custom?q=cache:JE ... =clnk&cd=2



I can not speak with any authority on this as I have not done it - but I did own a IX a few years ago and I would be worried about the fore - aft loading on the hull at deck level. Side loads I think should be OK as there is a beam from the gate out to the sides of the hull - but in front of the gate was only a stringer - not looking very strong to me. And the basic hull rigidity was - very low. So the advantages of deck steping would probably be hard to achieve.

The vertical loads should be OK.

Hope you enjoy Merlin sailing however you end up doing it!

john./
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'

British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'

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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:54 am

Richard, just a point no 908 will be a Mk 9 pure and simple 9b came at no 1882 or so 9c 2121.

It's not really complicated you'll be fine, the physics of the way Modern MR's stiffen hulls is pretty dubious jusy do a few simple drawings and strain diagrams anf the for and aft strain on any rig is not as great as the sideways one for your purposes the hull will be fine, its a glued up one so stiffer anyway, always listening to Garry's words of caution on rot and worm! (One could call him an expert bugger and rotter, but after Carol Thatcher and The One Show, I'll just say he's a good bloke, one of the best AND IT'S HIS BIRTHDAY!)
Simples.

RichardB2
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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by RichardB2 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:28 pm

Thanks for all the replies. As ever from this forum/site really useful and relaible information. I can rest assured now that I have done the right thing.

Ancient Geek, you are right she is a 9, the C just represented Chippendale as the builder but it is misleading.

Fortunately she has stood the test of time. It has taken me an very long time to get her to where she is now as all the deck joints and ribs had to be epoxy filleted, new timber ears and capping fitted for the centerboard, decks stripped re-tacked and epoxied to ribs...... the list is endless but she will look very special when finished, I doubt I will ever want to take her out. Then onto 2601. Aquired this boat a few weeks back very kindly off Rob Holroyd, who is having a new Merlin built by Laurie Smart to one of Keith Callaghans Hazerdous designs (with modern tweaks) see link:http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/Merlins/hazardous.htm
Anyway 2601 decks are shot but the hull is sound so there is hope!

Again thanks for the information.

Richard

RichardB2
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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by RichardB2 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:36 pm

Oh, I meant to add ....... Laurie (the one in the pictures at the bottom of the link page) is one hell of a good bloke, an amazing boat builder as you can see, and one of the very few remaining true professional WOODEN boat builders.

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Ed
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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by Ed » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:41 pm

Richard.

I am sure you will have lots of fun with your MkIX. I had MR999 Rozzer for a few years and I reckon for the money I spent (minimal) and the work undertaken (re-decked, but that was it), He was about the best classic buy I ever made. I just had so many laughs in that boat, he was without doubt the most benign and friendly boat I have ever sailed. Everything that ever went wrong in that boat (as it does), somehow seemed to turn out for the best.

I once stepped over the transom to push off into the creek at Uphill (Weston Beach) only to find that the tiller extension and sheet were completely tangled up. Before I could sort it out, we had born off and started accelerating downwind ( and downstream) in a big wild arc missing moored boats to right and left before we came up wind again and ran up the mud bank so far that we were completely stuck and had to wait for the tide to come in and free us.

After I had sold him, whilst enjoying a beer between races, I once pointed out to the new owner that he did not seem so well tied up to the pontoon at Baltic Wharf....and as I said this, he seemed to throw off his painter, reverse gently out from the pontoon and then sail quite happily away. Alan, seemed not in slightest worried as Rozzer sailed over to the other side of the harbour, gently tacked without touching the wall and sailed back to Alan who was waiting at the the upwind end of the pontoon. Quite uncanny.

Another time, I was following Bob C (that's now Ozzie Bob) in his Merc at Cleveden, I was just upwind and just behind him on a bit of screaming fetch, when suddenly an enormous wave picked us up so I was looking down onto the Merc and then shot us literally over the transom of the Merc and in flurry of surf below and out ahead of Bob. Afterwards Bob congratulated me on the manoeuvre, but I had to admit to having no control at all from before to after the event.

Mk IXs are not that fast, but when they do go....they give such an incredible feeling of speed that there is little that compares.

Mk IXs are so exactly the kind of boat that we were thinking of when we started the CVRDA....I do hope you will be able to come to some races.

As for Laurie Smart....a true Gent.

He owned Iska Merlin6 before I had her and made sure that I visited Upper Thames SC 3 times to chat to members there before they decided whether I was worthy of being her new owner.

He also re-decked my Jollyboat and did a wonderful job (he would cry if he could see her now....as do I...regularly - Bloody Robbins Elite!!)

I remember delivering the Jollyboat to his workshop and he told me he couldn't start work till the following week as he was building the hull of a Salcombe Yawl the next week. In those days I was working as a photographer and as I had nothing on asked him whether he needed an unpaid assistant for the week.

He looked at me rather sternly I thought....and said:

"Ed, I think the world has enough people who know how to build Clinker boats....don't you?"

And of course there are very few who know how to as well as he does.

Anyway....enjoy the Mk IX.

Makes me think I should really try and bring my MkVIII to the front of the re-build list as I miss having a Merlin.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

RichardB2
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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by RichardB2 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:52 pm

Thanks Ed,

Really interesting read an very amusing and the first time I have heard of a boat referred to as a HE!

Certainly intend to bring her to some of the CVRDA events when she is up and running.

I'll try and post some images of the restoration.

All the best


Richard

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Ed
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Re: Deck Stepping Vintage Merlin

Post by Ed » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:23 pm

Although I would not (in public) claim to be an expert on such matters.....

I am sure most would agree on the callipygian nature of the Mk IX

But yes.....one look and I am quite sure all Mk IXs are definitely boys, whereas viewed from the same angle, I would easily sex the Mk VIII as female.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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