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Trevor C
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Post by Trevor C » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:00 pm

Aluminium has risen to a very high price and now sailing clubs are reporting that thieves are breaking into club compounds and removing spars.

Trevor
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neil
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Post by neil » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:21 pm

thank goodness for wooden spars........
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Ed
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Post by Ed » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:18 pm

does that mean I don't have to worry about anybody pinching my nice new carbon mast?

eib
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Rupert
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Post by Rupert » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:58 am

Is carbon allowed at cvrda meets? Just wondering about my ToY rebuild! Mind, unless one falls off the back of a lorry, not much chance of it...
Rupert

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:29 am

Make your own.

I have been wanting to have a go at this for a while.....only problem is that mistakes are a bit costly.

I am picking up the carbon to have a go at making a boom this Sunday. Admitedly the carbon alone is costing more than the second hand IC boom available at moment....but that isn't the point is it. I want to have a go!! I mean what is the worst that can happen....no don't answer that Chris :-)

Is carbon cvrda legible.....mmmmmm.....maybe....but imagine how those horrible guys on the yardstick committee would have fun working out the handicap!

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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Post by Rupert » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:34 pm

Carbon is pretty much the same as wood, isn't it?
Rupert

chris
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Post by chris » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:42 pm

Just don't test at Clwedog!!!!!

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neil
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Post by neil » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:45 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ed</i>
Is carbon cvrda legible.....mmmmmm.....maybe....but imagine how those horrible guys on the yardstick committee would have fun working out the handicap!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hmmmmm, Rannoch + Ed's Carbon Rig + my new Technora main...............
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Mark
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Post by Mark » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:30 am

Ed, I am thinking along the same lines for the Moth and would be gratefull if you could pass on any tips
mark
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Ed
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Post by Ed » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:12 am

Well.....lots of thoughts about this, but little practice.

Most probably best to give me a ring sometime and we can chat. There is quite a bit about making carbon tubes and foils on the internet and most probably more since I last looked....so if you find anything good tell me.

Good place to start would be the UK Cherub site and then follow links from there. The guy who runs their site told me recently that the 'home-build' pages get so many hits that their ISP asked them if they were running a porn site.

I have basically heard of 3 or 4 ways or making carbon tubes:

Make, buy, steel or borrow a metal mandrel, wrap the carbon around it, let set and remove. various problems here, basically around getting mandrel out again, some just cut out and re-glue or apply another layer or two of cloth over top. Also not easy to lay up UD cloth down length of tube. Also problems with getting nice tight layer of cloth over mandrel. What you do I believe is wrap lengths of peal-ply around and then wrap brown tape around whole caboodle. I believe this is the most common way of making tubes and is simililar to how they are professionally made.

The second way is same as above but build a core of polystyrene, which at least you can shape to teardrop or whatever. of course you need to make sure this all stays straight! Laminate as above and then either leave polystyrene core in mast, with built in halyard sleaves etc or.....( I think this is really nasty) melt it all out with Acetone. mmmmmm....would work, just seems like a good way to make a horrible mess.

Third way is easiest and is really only for booms, although you could make a mast and indeed this is the way bigger wing masts are made. Make a female mould and then two halves of mast/boom and glue together. Maybe not so easy....but I do know of booms that have been made from using a polished length of 4in x 2in Ali channel. laying up mainly in bottom (will become sides), when two lengths made they are layed inside each other so that the top and bottom are two layers each made from the laminate from sides of channel. This is then all bound together and another layer put over all and taped tight. Pull everything off.....clean up and voila. I know of a boat builder who has made some nice big booms using this method.

Method 4 - and this is the only method that I have read and gone....yeah that would work....I am going to have a go. Laminating expensive stuff seems to work tons better when you use your nause and this method is just so clever. I won't give whole explanation here, cos its rather complicated....but this is the basics.

Make a female mould from mylar sheeting (circumference x length), attached along its length to two lengths of 1x1in square section ali. Lay uni carbon tape down on acetate sheet and wet out. lay on top a plastic pipe within a rubber bladder, wrap mylar and laminate around the pipe/bladder (wrap loosly in cling film first) and bolt or clamp the two lengths of section together. Make sure all is straight and then blow up bladder with foot pump until cloth is tight against mylar. If there are any bubbles of air or glue, make small puncture hole and need them out. Keep straight, keep warm....take 4 valium or quick glass of whisky....stand back and wait for all to set. Pull apart. and bingo.

Well that is the theory. lots more preparation for this method, but I don't see why it won't work really well.

What do you all think?

The real problem is that to be honest, commercial outlets for small amounts of carbon are so expensive that I doubt that there is much of a saving really.

Although incidentally I bought a roll end of 9M of 300gm ud 300mm carbon tape at the w/end which I had to buy to get a reasonable price. This is most probably too much for me unless someone asks me to make a boom up....so if you are interested and get any further I might be able to sell you some. I have also found someone down here in Cornwall selling 200gm carbon cloth (not twill unfortunately) for under20 quid which is the cheapest I have seen it.

Good luck and tell me how it goes

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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stu
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Post by stu » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:09 am

Method 5:

Save your pennies and buy from spar manufacturer (although as many will mention this method is not always fool proof)

Method 6:

Stick with ali, and improve sailing to catch the carbonites, OR sail close enough behind them and overtake when mast / boom snaps.

Method 7:

Think, O my god this is far to expensive and complicated and take up sailing strict one designs (not always fool proof either) OR best of all take up sailing old boats where even aluminium is considered high tech!
The only canoe sailor in MY village too !

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Brian E. Evans
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Post by Brian E. Evans » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:27 pm

A source for carbon you may not know about is Aircraft Spruce And Specialty at 9 Cam Cntr. Wilbury Wy, Hitchin
Hertfordshire, England SG4 OTW
Ph: +44-1462-441995
Fax: +44-1462-442228
acseurope@boltblue.com they handle several types of carbon fibre and fibreglass cloth together with Kevlar.
B.E.

JimC
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Post by JimC » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:12 pm

> Carbon [spars] allowed?

My Bethwaite wooden wing mast has a layer of carbon unis between the wood spar and the balsa fairing. Where the original balsa had rotted off there was some rot in the pine on the surface so I felt it needed a bit of assistance.

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