Damage/Filler Advice

[Ancient Geek]

If it is THAT boat it was finished at Johns Contracting firms (truett and Steel.) workshops in Thornton Heath where they did very high standard woodwork that whole enterprise was overseen by Johns pedantic (Amateur clock maker of the highest standard.) father who was responsible for tanother boat (Finished from a Gregory/Welbourne hull.) that distintigrated in a cloud of cogs wire and titanium at Hyers! John's father also had a house with a central vacuumn cleaner you just plugged the hose into a socket in the wall. Anyway cold tea may have gone near it because it was their favourite stain too. The deckply will beof the highest standard built by the sadly now extinct Reliable Plywood Company it will have been initial varnished in Wilkinsons two pack too.

[JimC]

Difficult to take the gunwales off without damaging the deck

Belt sander. I'm sure I've done it. Didn't occur to me it would be a problem: after all that's how I finish up new decks ready for the gunwhale...

[Ed]

Gosh......mmmmm....

Most of the limited knowledge that I have about building and re-building boats has come from watching, talking to (often over a beer) people who fix boats for a living. They have often stressed to me that the main difference between what I do and what they do is that they have to do it FAST and I can take as much time as I want/need, to get it right. Their practice can tend towards pragmatism and the clever use of power-tools, where their recommendations to me were always to use hand-tools and take my time, but do it right.

So a professional will use 'walnut shells' to remove varnish, a router to remove a rubbing strip/gunwhale , spray rather brush etc.

But, there are two tools which always amaze me in the hands of a well-skilled boat builder: The belt-sander and the grinder (spinning a really course abrasive disk). Both of these can undertake hours of work - sanding, shaping, removing varnish etc in seconds. But if you take a second too long, if you loose control for one 1/100 of a second and the damage can be immense and often total. There is no doubt in my mind that I have seen more damage done by the misuse of belt-sanders than any other tool in our kit and I take a secret gulp every time I hear someone recommending their use. There is no doubt they can be fantastic.....but do practice first....and take great care.

Personally I only use a belt-sander for a few jobs - mainly shaping foils, but I consider myself a dab-hand with the grinder now - a wonderful took once you get the hang of it.

But, for my money, I agree with Jim, it should be possible to remove a gunwhale without harming the decks. How easy it is and how you go about doing it, will depend on how well attached it is of course. If it is an old boat (pre-epoxy), you can often take it off with care just by prising it slowly off. With a bit of luck you can do this and keep it in one piece, but if it is well attached, you may have to cut if off.

Many ways of doing this of course:

The most elegant (and professional as its fast) is to use a router and route it off, or route off the top quadrant. I got Laurie Smart to redeck and replace the gunwhales on my Jollyboat once - He did this. Not removing the whole gunwale gave him something to work to, gives a very clean edge and must of been much faster. You can either take off the whole strip or take off a bit leaving a band of contrasting or matching wood - An easy way to add a pinstripe-effect.

Failing that you could plane it off, hard work by hand, but only 3 or 4 runs with a good powered-plane. You would just have to really watch what you were doing and finish off by hand. Not as fast as a router...but much faster than by hand or with belt-sander and more accurate.

I have removed 90% of a gunwhale with a jig-saw, but its hard work.....you need a very good saw and the best blades and you still need to finish off with a plane.

Whatever you use, you will of course need to remove all the screws'n'nails first.

In the case of this FD....I can't quite see what is happening below the rubbing strip, there seems to be another run of wood.....is this another bit of rubbing strip that has been cut in....or is this the top of hull, in which case the rubbing strip is 'inset' into the hull?? Can't quite see - a slightly wider photo might help.

I wouldn't dream of taking these gunwhales off for this damage - as annoying as it is. A nice patch would be fine and take no time at all.

Having read this thread, my main worry would be if the wood, as some have suggested, is stained. This makes matching the wood and colour so much harder. The problem is you then have to be so careful about not disturbing the wood around the patch. If you do, then you find that by sanding it, you remove the stain in that area and then you have <original stained wood - sanded wood, without stain - new patch - sanded wood, without stain - original stained wood> and adding stain to match it, can just make it worse. This is all quite possible, but very hard. Laurie Smart considers himself an expert at this, but I know I am not.

Without stain, there may be a slight change in wood colour due to fading/oxidisation in the sanded areas, but after patch is in...a year or two in the sun and it just blends in.

With a little scarf like this, I would try and get it in without disturbing the wood on either side - maybe not even removing the varnish....one would have to suck it and see.

I am looking forwards to hearing how you do it and seeing the photos.

eib

[Michael Brigg]

I have very little wodwork skills.

...But I do on occasion advise people who want to keep their bodies young and as a rule I really shy away from using plastics and proththetics to replace what is lost.

As a rule you swim or run or generally play better when you are not wearing the prosthetic, and you will notice your repair (unless it is exceptional) every bit as much as a well healed dent.

Scars as a rule fade with time.

Can these dents not be carefully tidied up, (the medical term would be de-brided) and possibly persuaded to fill out a bit with steaming, before building up several layers of varnish/epoxy over the indentation until it is flush (or nearly so) with the rest of the gunwhale?

See how they feel after a season, and then if they still offend thine eye, set about a more considered repair when you are not angry. (A repair done in haste etc...)

The point here is whether these marks will offend your eye. If changing your appearance is what you are after then this is where even tiny cosmetic manipulation can transform far more than the face. Removal of a small mole from an expessive part of the face can put a smile on it, and can magically reveal a completely new person.

...But I would still be very careful and go initially for repair rather than replacement

[Ed]

Ah absolutely!

you are so right and also right to suggest that a careful clean followed by a careful build up of epoxy followed by varnish will often make a fix which is far more invisible that either filler or a scarf.

eib

[Ancient Geek]

Michael would say botox is contra-indicated too then? Where I am at the moment there seem to a lot of fixed facial expressions on the Russian WAGS!

[Guy]

Many thanks indeed for the great advice.
Indeed some drying out has made the area look significantly better already.
Long term I will go for the scalloped scarf solution. That is when I source some suitable and near matching wood. I hope in due course to post an image of the affected area, where there will be no discernable difference.
OCD - Yes
Love wooden boats - definitely

After all, in the grand scheme of things I'm only looking after FD233 for a time until somebody else has the pleasure of looking after her.

Yours Aye

Guy