holes in hulls

[Mungo]

While removing the decks from the jolly boat I noticed some delamination in one of the side tanks

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I then scrapped the paint of the outside and found a rather large fracture that had been repaired with what looks like plastic wood.... that just fell out when I used the heat gun on the paint.

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The wood is not rotten looking feels pretty solid to a stab with a screw driver. Obviously needs repair. Can anyone send me in the right direction as to how I go about this. It's a bit disappointing as I wanted a varnished hull. The dent is about 4-5 inches total

Thanks

Mungo

[Rupert]

There was a fair amount of detail on this a while back, I think (I'm sure I'll be corrected) on a thread about Fireflies started by Gerry R. It should be possible to search for this.

[jon711]

Well I would say a varnished hull is now out of the question (sorry).

If that damage had come into the boatyard, I would have recommended SP and microfibres. However if you are doing the work yourself, and time is no object.... Take back each veneer by about two inches per layer around the damage. Then lay veneers in to the stepped hole. Not a nice task, and quite tedious....

Personally, I'd wodge it with Epoxy!!

Jon

A Norfolk term that you may not understand Wodge = Bodge

[admin]

Rather than an epoxy bodge (remind me to avoid Norfolk boatyards ) It might be worth having a look at this thread.

http://cvrda.org/community/viewtopic.ph ... air#p15988

There are a few of us who have done similar repairs, it can be fiddly but the results are worth it, and a varnished finish should be possible. Fiddly yes, tedious no. all you need is some patience. OK, it may not be invisible but it's an honest repair.

[Mungo]

Thanks for the responses. I'll read through the threads.

the amount of time doesn't matter. I don't know how to sail....

thanks again

Mungo

[roger]

Thanks for the responses. I'll read through the threads.

the amount of time doesn't matter. I don't know how to sail....

thanks again

Mungo

Mungo, with a beautiful boat like that I am sure there will be lots of people wanting to teach you to sail.

Count me in.

[jon711]

Rather than an epoxy bodge (remind me to avoid Norfolk boatyards ) It might be worth having a look at this thread.

http://cvrda.org/community/viewtopic.ph ... air#p15988

There are a few of us who have done similar repairs, it can be fiddly but the results are worth it, and a varnished finish should be possible. Fiddly yes, tedious no. all you need is some patience. OK, it may not be invisible but it's an honest repair.

Believe me when you have done quite a few veneer repairs, it can get very tedious. I would rather steam new timbers in a Merlin, than fiddle with veneers. But it is an easy job, and is the right way to fix the problem. So I would reccomend, fix it properly, stepped repair, taking out two inches stepped per layer. Make sure that you keep the grain aligned (People may say this dosn't matter,and they may have a point, but there is no harm in lining the grain up!).

Good Luck, and hope to see the boat at a CVRDA event soon..

Jon

[Mungo]

It is a beautiful boat, that's why it's in my garage. Fixing it is completely impractical for me, but I couldn't bear to see it crushed and sent to the dump. I keep thinking that while I like it as an object it really should be in the hands of someone who likes it as a boat. Hopefully that is where it will eventually end up, but meanwhile I am enjoying playing with it.

I will try the repair, fiddly is Ok with me, I find large scale things more difficult.... It is quite simply a new challenge. Since time is not of the essence I would like to try and make a repair that will let me varnish the boat. The damage on the outside is far more gruesome than the inside. The inner veneer has split along the grain but is not otherwise damaged. Since the repair is over the tanks I can be quite crude on the inside. I am thinking of vacuum gluing some ply over the split on the inside, and then replacing two layers of veneer on the outside. This hole is right on the greatest arc of the hull so I kind of want something to help with the shape.
My biggest problem right now is finding veneers. I cannot even find agba (Tola?) wood in North America, never mind veneers. I think I spent more on phone calls than the veneer would cost. Bit frustrating when one doesn't need that much. I can get gaboon veneers but they are a different colour and texture (OK if I paint the boat). I thought of planing down the old deck material that is in good shape for the final outer layer but the veneers in that wood are only about 1 mm (and this is likely a very bad idea for a number of other reasons). I'll strip the hull to see if there are further sins hidden under that charming blue and yellow paint.

I would love to go to a CVRDA event except I'm across the pond..... shipping me is a bit expensive (although the only agba veneer I can find is in the UK, and the beer is much better,... I'm almost convinced).

Mungo

[Garry R]

Mungo I sent you a PM and I do have some small amount of 2mm agba. Let me know what size the hole is - Remember it won't matter what's on the hidden side.

Regards

Garry

[Rupert]

I rather enjoy doing veneers - until it goes wrong! But generally, it is a pretty straight forward way of fixing a boat.

[Ed]

Well.....it takes all types....

Personally I have always found replacing veneers to be an easy, fun and rewarding bit of boat-building to undertake.

I am afraid that my diagnosis is also different to others on the forum.

This crash is typical of Fairey bumps and is very easily fixed. It has always been one of the real strong points of the hot-moulded process. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't still have a varnished finish at the end of it.

Patching it with some agba, won't be hard and if you can't find it here, we can easily ship some over to you....no probs. There have been many previous threads on it.

BUT......before you go starting to pull it apart.....

Can I make a suggestion?

I would really consider another approach. Pretty much leave it as it is!

I have quite often patched bumps to find that the patch to be honest looks worse than the damage. It is a 50 year old boat.....isn't a bump or two to be expected??

The bump is within a strip of veneer so is only around 4to5 inches square??

I would cut out the ply veneer behind the bump (certainly everything that is loose or broken) and as much of the glue/filler in the front of the bump and then push it out till it is as flat as you can get it, then fix it in place and replace the inner veneers with some 1.5mm ply and a layer of good quality glass cloth (300gm Bi-ax?) and epoxy over the hole damage from inside. Then I would carefully build up the damage with clear epoxy, till it is flat.

OK, so you would have some damage....and some black marks.....but so?? the patches would be worse....and I promise it would not look so bad that you need to paint it.

Also you have the advantage that you don't need any fancy agba or other veneers.

It is a simple, easy and pragmatic fix.

If you would prefer to take on the fun challenge of replacing some veneers.....GO FOR IT! There is lots of experience in this kind of repair on the forum and we would be delighted to help in any way that we can.

eib

[jon711]

Good call Ed, didn't think of doing it that way, should work OK....

Jon

(Still learning!!)

[Garry R]

Ed is 100% right - I have a ply repair like that on the stern deck of Secret Water - about 1/2" deep puncture wound and I just filled it up with epoxy and you would hardly notice. And as I said to Mungo on a pm the inside doesn't matter as you can't see it.

[Mungo]

Thanks for all the help

I thought about the pull it out, patch it, wear your wounds proudly approach. There are plenty of other wounds, the gunwhales are dented and scraped etc. However.... The inner ply looks OK, split but not compromised. The outer ply I would describe as bruised, badly. What is in between the two??? I tried to very gently pull the outer ply to fill in the hole but it is immobile and very fragile. I suspect that the inner ply delaminated and the middle ply is crushed but well glued to the remnants. The dent is about 1/8+ inch deep so not that insignificant. Doing the ply work doesn't worry me, Now that I have hit reply i forgot what Ed said... i should approach this from the inside, and push the outside flat, and patch the back??. The wood is not rotten, I think this is damage done long after this boat saw water. The blue paint has never been wet... Working space is limited from that side and I am reluctant to remove more ply panels, where they are well glued, they are well glued. I think removing them is causing more harm than good.

I'll have to ponder it....

I'm learning the hard way, now that I have removed the deck the gunwales are not well supported, I wouldn't roll the boat over them. Contemplating removing them from the hull as a whole as just the lower deck doesn't have much support. Having found one bad spot I really need to strip the rest but she's keel down and.... The joys of being naive.

thanks again

Mungo

[Ed]

ponder away!

its your call. either way, we will help all that we can

cheers

eib