Restoration HELP!

share hints, tips and experiences
FDGorilla
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Post by FDGorilla » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:41 pm

Hi guys,

I've just bought a 30 year old Albacore to do some fun racing - FD's and 505's are for serious playing - and look forward to joining you all next year at some of your events. A temporary bodge job is currently underway to get her on the startline for the Inters in September. However, I have a busy winter ahead of me to do it properly and I need some advice.

Three of the plys to the rear of the hull are starting to delaminate. One badly. What is the best/easiest method to sort this. I have read posts concerning CPES and/or drilling small holes to inject resin but presume that these need to be clamped to regain the original shape as there is some balloning.

There is also some minor surface rot along the hog where the former owner used some glass tape (reason unknown but he seemed to like it cos it's everywhere!) but didn't wet/key it properly and so water has got in behind. CPES looks like the business for 'fixing' this but any other ideas?

No doubt other things will rear their heads as the winter progresses so I may be picking your collective brains on a regular basis!

Thanks,

James
I may not be very clever but I can lift heavy things

Finn GBR75

chris
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Post by chris » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:08 am

Yes glass tape etc is a hopeless way to repair wooden hull always seems to make problems later . Remove it all!

One way I cramp awkward bits of hull together is to angle the boat on the trolley or whatever so that part of the hull is roughly parallel to the floor and use a few light battens of wood say 1x1" and spring them from the ground to the underside of the hull, cut some small wedges too if neccessary. (If they don't stay there use some of that non slip mat that hardware shops sell.) That supports the outside then inside do the same sort of thing either by cramping a strong board across the hull and spring battens from that, or even a couple of straps right round the hull and spring from that. More cramping points with light pressure is better than one cramp cranked up to bursting point. The only thing to watch is that you don't distort the hull which is why a support both sides is worth it. a polythene sheet acts as a good barrier to prevent gluing your cramps to hull.
Sometimes a pad of polystyrene with a breeze block on top it all you need to weight it down. I'm sure other people have plenty of other good ways to cramp awkward bits....staples,car jacks, car inner tubes stripped up, gaffer and parcel tape are all useful.

Rupert
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Post by Rupert » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:26 am

I'll often put wood in coming down from the roof beams...sometimes it works a treat, others, it works great till the glue is in, then it all goes slippery and the next 1/2 hour is spent swearing alot, getting covered in glue and trying to figure out how to get the angle such that there is no sideways force on the joint! I also use old weight training weights alot - a much better use than the proper one!

There are places where glass tape can be used - if done properly! Saskia the Firefly's side tanks are epoxy taped along the bottom edge to stop the leaks. In fact, long before I bought her, parts of the case had been taped, and through 14 years and a couple of major revamps, it is still there, mainly due to a lack of desire to find out what is underneath! Can't say I'd tape the case myself, though, as in theory it is only trapping trouble.

Welcome to the CVRDA, by the way! The name FDGorilla suggests you spend time at the front end?!
Rupert

FDGorilla
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Post by FDGorilla » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:02 am

Thanks guys,

Liking the use of the freeweights - I have quite a few about the place and presume that batterns laid along the hull will stop deformation of the lines. Whats best though - drilling/injecting or CPES? I would like (am getting presume from girlfriend) to take her back to varnish as opposed to the hideousness of the paintjob currently poorly applied.

Speaking of which reminds me - the previous owner coated the sidedecks with polyester resin and painted those as well (EEK!!) has anyone any ideas how best to get this off - lots of thinners or paintstripper/heat are my first thoughts.

Rupert - you are absolutely right, I spend most of my sailing time destroying the front ends of FD's and 5oh's. It's a long time since I've played with a 'proper' wooden boat so this is all an adventure for me.
I may not be very clever but I can lift heavy things

Finn GBR75

chris
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Post by chris » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:54 am

Re Stain removal.
As said there's plenty on this site about oxalic acid. Here's something else to try.
Sometimes it's not staining of the timber but dirt 'glued' to the wood with old varnish, epoxy or whatever. really strip it well (I've used the water washable nitromors and a power hose to clean off (carefully!)
then wash with Acetone. Since it evapaportaes so quickly I have soacked a cloth in it then backed it with polythene as I hold it against the wood to soak in with just disappearing into the atmosphere.
merlin 36 was sheathed in glass and has left a lot of very black marks. The test piece in the photo is just washed with acetone. I found a hot iron is almost better than a hot air gun at softening the remains of the resin for scraping the last bits out, then acetone. Don't forget how flamable it is!
Image

chris
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Post by chris » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:57 am


chris
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Post by chris » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:01 pm

Sorry beinbg useless at getting a picture down so click on the above URL.
Neil why does clicking the picture icon always plant the forum url infront of what I type there. GRRRRRRRRRR.......

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:47 pm

Re: repairing Fairey Hulls.

no-one has really tackled this although there is plenty of experience in those that have posted.

I am sure that I have written ad nauseum about how to do it in the past, so it might be worth a quick search through the archives.

I would really recommend fixing it properly, in my experience pumping anything in between the veneers, does not work terribly well due to the amount of dirt and old glue which is also in there.

Fixing laminated hulls is really easy needs no more tools than a stanley knife a small plane and some sandpaper...oh and a steel rule.

Agba veneer is currently in stock at Robbins in Bristol.

Basically you cut out all old soft veneer and leave only good hard veneer, then build up shape using the inner veneer (which is normally a bit stonger). Follow the lines and grain and work slowly. Use weights and staples to hold each veneer in place.

If it is a big hole, you might need to make a section of mould to go under or over the hole first.....but you can normally manage without that.

Sorry don't have time to explain much more than this.....but only to encourage you to do the job properly rather than just saturating the poor hull with guk. It really is not hard to do and is great fun. I persuaded a friend to fix a hole recently with veneer.....and he actually rang me up afterwards to say how much fun it had been fixing it.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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Rupert
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Post by Rupert » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:05 pm

I'd been avoiding the CPES question coz I've never used it. But nothing else I've used has, as Ed said, ever done a good job on the veneers. Veneering might, sometimes, be fun, on the days when it goes right! Other days, especially when dealing with areas of high curviture, nothing seems to go right and I start dreaming of GRP boats... The area round the transom near the keel, though, is fairly straight forward to do, as the veneers are pretty flat.

Never sailed an FD - at 5'5" and just over 10 stone, I never felt big enough, really - must have a go before my knees give out forever, though! Can we steal Superdocious from Falmouth and bring her to Roadford, guys?!
Ed - is the Agba at Robbins as pale as the stuff on the boats, do you know?
Rupert

FDGorilla
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Post by FDGorilla » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:25 pm

Hmmmm. I'll have a look at the archive and then see how brave I'm feeling. I presume that it is possible to just scarf the relevant section in or does this just store problems for the future so the whole length of veneer needs to be done? What about just peeling back the veneer, cleaning beneath and refixing - although I dont suppose this saves you muck work really.

Rupert, when I was doing some coaching with them a few weeks ago, there were mutterings from FD World that one will be coming to a few of the CVRDA events next year. Jules will almost certainly take you for a play - he quite happily takes out people smaller than yourself in quite a lot of wind so should be no problem. There is nothing quite like a well setup Dutchman going to windward!
I may not be very clever but I can lift heavy things

Finn GBR75

chris
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Post by chris » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:52 pm

I was in Robbins and asked about agba veneer but I didn't look at it so can't say about colour. I was told it's 2mm thick. They have no solid at the moment.

When I get round to doing my albacore I'll need some too, psossibly soild too if I put a new transome in, which is likely.

roger
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Post by roger » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:35 pm

Rupert if you get the chance to fly a dutchman go for it. I went with James`(his real name)helm last December and dreamt of owning one ever since but it comes back down to realities of cant afford where to keep and where to store etc.etc.etc.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
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Hornet 353

Rupert
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Post by Rupert » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:58 pm

I'll look out for the Dutchman and hitch a ride!
When veneering, there is no need to scarph pieces in. Because it is 3 layers, you can (if the hole goes right through) cut the veneers so the outer and inner veneers have more cut away than the middle one, and use the middle one to glue the new inside to, then the new middle, and finally the new outside over the top of this. The repair ends up only being a couple of inches bigger than the original damaged area. Each layer butts up against the original veneer.
Stanley knives get blunt very quickly cutting the veneers, by the way!
Rupert

alan williams
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Post by alan williams » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:18 pm

Hi FD sailor
By Jules are you refering to Julian Bridges one time Hornet Driver? It would be good to see him again.
Cheers Al Williams

FDGorilla
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Post by FDGorilla » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:44 pm

Hi Alan

Yes, it is indeed Julian (Tiger) Bridges of Hornet and Osprey fame. He sails one of David Wilkins old FD's and is talking about doing the CVRDA stuff with his wife Cath making a welcome return to the frontend.

Thanks for the tips on patching veneers. Am I right in saying that it's 2mm ply (she's Young built) and as it is all on the bottom with very little curve I might give it a go - may need beer to get the courage but this may not help the end result.
I may not be very clever but I can lift heavy things

Finn GBR75

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