A couple of Mirror problems

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Peter H
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 2:34 pm

A couple of Mirror problems

Post by Peter H » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:40 pm

A rampant Topper has attacked Bill, my mirror, cracking the hull just below where to seat top joins the hull side, and about half way between centre thwart and transom. The hull is still firm, but depressed alonga crack about 30cm long. Any ideas for a good repair??
Also, a friends Mirror has damage to the bottom of the pram bow. Does the fore and aft spine that runs from the cockpit bulkhead under the mast steps continue to the bow.? On this depends how many hatches to put in, or how big a bit of deck to cut out in order to get inside to repair.

Peter H

Michael Brigg
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by Michael Brigg » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:36 pm

I fully realise that repair is partly a question of available finance, and the circumstances of the ding are not known to me, but surely if Bill was the innocent party, then the answer here is to agree that Bill should send "The bill" so to speak (Or at any rate, an estimate) to the Rampant topper?

I would especially consider this if there is a possibility of extensive damage

If they weren't racing then there is even the probability of a 100% cover.

With regard to the bulkheads, I thought the bow tank is separate Port and starboard. Try blowing air into the intact side. If it doesnt hold preassure then there is no functional internal bulkhead and the only pupose of multiple inspection hatches would be for ease of access, and sandwich storage.
Michael Brigg

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by jpa_wfsc » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:57 pm

I am sure the bow tank is just one - the fore/aft bulkhead in the storage area between the two bulkheads supports the two alternate mast steps and does not carry on forward. So one sandwich / inspection hatch would be enough. I think it puts the mirror out of class rules though as there are rules about hatches in the Mirror. If you want to race at open meetings it would be wise to check that - but for cruising and club racing I doubt if anyone would raise an eyelid.

The side of the mirror is one piece of ply from gunwale down to the chine. The top of the tank is supported on a thin stringer that is glued to the in-side of the hull side. The tank top is then secured with the glass tape and resin that you can see down to the stringer (the builder should have used epoxy under the tank top to the stringer). Its unlikely that the stringer has got damaged (damage to the tank top would be very visible). It sounds as if your ply has got 'scissored' under the level of that stringer. So the best repair would be to cut out the damaged ply, and then to scarph in replacement material.

You might get away with pulling out the existing material to near the original profile, and filling with epoxy - micro-balloon mix. Its not a structurally important area. If you do not mind adding hatches to your mirror then you could put one in the tank wall in the cockpit - allowing access to the back of the damaged panel and allowing to brace the repair with ply stuck over it there. Stonger, but probably not necessary.

Whatever - I hope that you are back on the water soon and enjoying your Mirror sailing!
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'

British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'

!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
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ent228
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by ent228 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:14 pm

Just to confirm, the spine does not go into the front tank. My cruising mirror has two 10" hatches either side of the centre line in the front tank. You can get a good deal of kit in there, and if you leave them off over the winter it really helps keep the rot at bay. She also has hatches in all the other tanks.

Peter H
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by Peter H » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:57 am

Many thanks for the speedy and informative replies. On the insurance point, both boats were partaking of our junior sail training, and the topper is club owned. As the club is heavily exposed after clubhouse repairs, I wouldn't want to do anything to worsen the insurance premium. As a distant witness, its difficult to asign blame, as both boats took the "wrong" evasive action.

And I doubt very much if either Mirror is in class now, so a few odds and sods won't matter. The pull out, epoxy inside seems the best option for Bill, maybe with the addition of a second hatch. The pfection scarf method seems far too invoved for a hack about boat.

Regards

Peter H

STEVEB
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by STEVEB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:57 pm

Hi Peter,
I can probably find you a bit of spare ply if you need it and probably a second hand hatch as well, all extras from my Heron project!
Steve :D
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Stephen Hawkins
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:17 am

Ah a Heron.

I used to have one of those. Probably have another one in due course.

Lovely old boat. I like the old wood on frame, Gunter rigged variety.

If I were ever to get the opportunity to build a boat, a Heron kit would be on my short list.

Cheers

steve h
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Peter H
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by Peter H » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:35 pm

Steve...rescued you a back wheel if you still need one

Peter H

JimC
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by JimC » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:22 pm

jpa_wfsc wrote: So the best repair would be to cut out the damaged ply, and then to scarph in replacement material.
Should have spotted this before, and maybe its too late, but a reasonable betwixt and between is the good old thread and patch method... Cut the damaged ply back so its clean, and has an opening into the hull. Prepare a nice ply patch that will cover the whol area with a reasonable backing, and put a piece of thread through it and with a stopper knot on the back: two pieces pref of different colours if the patch is not very round. The Threads should be located so that they are in the open area of the patch. Coat well with epoxy - sticky bog on the surface that will go against the hull, post it through the hole and use the threads to locate in position until the glue sets. You could put a few screws through as well if you're keen. When all cured remove thread and screws and fill holes.
Last edited by JimC on Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rupert
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by Rupert » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:59 am

If the damage butts up to the deck stringer, it is also possible to use this to support new wood, along with Jim's suggestion. Epoxy does a great job of hiding gaps, too!
Rupert

Stephen Hawkins
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:26 am

I am a great exponent of the 'Car body filler and cardboard' school, or at least one of the many previous owners of my Merlin Rocket was....... :wink:

Only kidding.....However I did leave two such repairs in the front tank of the Cadet I have just redecked. It seems that they have been there for years and years and were very firm and hidden by paint of the hull. So I tidied them and sealed them up inside and then just 'put the lid on them'. Out of sight out of mind!
:roll:

Not best practice, I know, but that redeck had really turned into a rebuild. Hand it over this weekend, so I now have space for the MR this winter.....Hurrah!

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

SaturdayGirl
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by SaturdayGirl » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:02 pm

Peter H

The Mirror class rules clearly ask for one hatch 150mm dia in the fore tank , thats a 6" HOLE you can cut at will and anywhere to repair your mirror with whatever is your prefered method . The tank is one piece , ie no center spine . Scarphed ply would be favourite but your prefered bog mix will be perfectly adequate for the Mirror and will be minium cost and a fast repair .


Have fun !

SaturdayGirl
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by SaturdayGirl » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:03 pm

Peter H

The Mirror class rules clearly ask for one hatch 150mm dia in the fore tank , thats a 6" HOLE you can cut at will and anywhere to repair your mirror with whatever is your prefered method . The tank is one piece , ie no center spine . Scarphed ply would be favourite but your prefered bog mix will be perfectly adequate for the Mirror and will be minium cost and a fast repair .


Have fun !

<a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img291.imageshack.us/i/dscf25031.jpg/'><img src='http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2050/dscf25031.jpg' border='0'/></a>

SaturdayGirl
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Re: A couple of Mirror problems

Post by SaturdayGirl » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:13 pm

My Mirror

Image

Image



Image



Edit note the Contender drains !!

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