On a budget

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momentum
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Re: On a budget

Post by momentum » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:51 pm

Here goes Solentgal - after only two posts and I'm already attaching a photo or two. (well at least trying too!)

Hope the following links give access to a couple of the 'before'.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6619/dscf1575k.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4092/dscf1574q.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6981/dscf1573s.jpg

Please let me know if these are successful.
Mo Mentum

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neil
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Re: On a budget

Post by neil » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:16 pm

Let's make 'em live

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Ed
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Re: On a budget

Post by Ed » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:23 pm

just looking at them off-forum and suddenly there they are!

I don't know..... think of all that bandwidth!

I mean it must cost us a fortune.....who do we pay it too????

Oh yes, I remember......you!

:twisted: :P :wink: :P :lol: :twisted:
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Ed
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Re: On a budget

Post by Ed » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:27 pm

Oh, sorry....meant to say.....before us admins get accused of taking this thread totally off-topic...

Those decks really don't look that bad at all!

Has any of the ply actually lifted?

Can you tell whether the veneer of the ply has delaminated at all?

I have had many boats that have looked worse than this and have dried out just fine.

It looks to me like you might be able to just strip it, clean it and G4 it and you will be fine for a few years.

Certainly doesn't look as bad as I thought from your description.

eib
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solentgal
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Re: On a budget

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:39 am

Hi Momentum,
I agree with Ed on this.............those decks look like the sort of thing I tackle regularly, and I feel sure you can get them back to a good looking, useable condition.......have you got storage inside? Try tapping all around the decks with a srewdriver handle......you soon know the difference in the sound of rotten or good wood.....and damp, but sound, wood can be monitored as it dries out like this.......I've learned to tell the difference between a good and bad plywood boat over the years with a few well placed taps!

I did an Enterprise a couple of years ago that I would say was in about the same condition.........I used a heat gun and a good scraper, (I use the green plastic Harris 4 way changeable blade type, sharpened regularly), and a Stanley blade carefully used on the really bad bits (knock the corners off)..........dried out thoroughly afterwards, and then sanded carefully by hand......A little wood filler on a couple of places where the grain was a bit raised ......and then just varnished! (50/50 coats to start).........the end result may not have been show winning as some of the discolouration still showed, but I was pleased with the result, and it cost very little in materials, ......plus a large pot of elbow grease, :) I suggest trying a small patch to see how it goes.......the port aft patch looks the worst bit......maybe just try scraping a little bit with a blade to see?
Sami.

JimC
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Re: On a budget

Post by JimC » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:33 am

I agree: plenty worse decks have survived...

Rupert
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Re: On a budget

Post by Rupert » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:37 am

Just take care when sanding back that you avoid going through the top layer of ply if you possibly can - a bit of discoloration looks better than dark grain running the wrong way, and the top ply may well be thin. Agree that elbow grease will be the most expensive thing on redoing those decks - or the beer to replenish the elbow grease at the end of the day...
Rupert

Garry R
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Re: On a budget

Post by Garry R » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:57 am

Areas that have lifted I have found that you can actually cut the top layer of ply off using an angled cut so that when you replace it it pushes back into place. I used epoxy glue well warmed so it really flows and where necessary inject under the edges. Pop the ply veneer you had cut off, back and clamp it down using some parcel tape backed ply to spread the load. It's amazing what can be done. The parcel tape backed ply won't stick to the epoxy - a great tip A(among many others) which I got from Chris B. Sand carefully and then G4 and a top coat of varnish. Another thing about G4 is to leave it a few weeks to cure out and get rid of the volatiles before the final coats. There has been a lot of stuff written about G4 which you can search on past topics.

Just about to leave for Bristol for a house hunt - we are all sold up here (leaving end of April) so hopefully we can find something with plenty of storage and a workshop and I suppose ideally with a house on the plot!!!!! I have a feeling that Trish may have some input too!!!!!!!!!

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Ed
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Re: On a budget

Post by Ed » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:11 am

its funny how sooner or later threads always seem to come back to G4! :twisted:

Two quick things:

First Parcel tape.
A quick word of 'slight' warning..... this doesn't work with 'all' parcel tapes! I have had some (cheap ones bought in packs of 6) that either did stick to the epoxy or de-laminated leaving a mess of stick and brown guck on the boat, with the backing in my hand (there appearss to be 3 layers to parcel tape - clear base, brown colour and glue), presumably de-laminated by the epoxy or diluent if used. On the other hand some fibre-glass suppliers actually supply a 'laminating release tape' , which looks just like brown tape but works absolutely perfectly. So choose with care.

Do Sand the G4

If you are going to use G4....do do some searching on past threads. It is not the easiest coating system in the world and there are quite a few things that you can get wrong.

Yes....as Gary says, do leave it to sweat off the volatiles.....but really make sure you have sanded it very well before re-coating. It is actually quite hard to get a good bond to G4 (once it has cured) with any other system. It is so hard and inert that you won't get any chemical bond and have to rely on a mechanical one. This can even be so between coats of G4. Of course, the fun thing about G4 is that you can hot-coat it and get 2 or 3 coats on in a day, but once they have cured, you need to leave them for a few days and really sand. But the idea of just doing a 'coat' a day, doesn't tend to work very well.

Anyway....look up the past threads on G4. Maybe someone should write a 'Working with G4' bit for the tips and tools

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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GAv
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Re: On a budget

Post by GAv » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:40 pm

The problem area you really need to address in my humble opinion,is under that forestay bracket. Judging by all that green surrounding it, you will need to get those foredecks and fillet lifted to see whats underneath. Also remove the thwart traveller as usually the fore and aft side decks meet thereunder, they hopefully are saveable because the concave contours are very hard to replicate.
Old Solos are notorious for rotting at the point where the dovetail is* and the centre and side splines converge with the fore and aft baton* from the mast surround to the front that is. The bracket is effectively screwed into that piece so I bet the wood is mulchy underneath too..
By feeling in the forepeek hatch, presuming it has a removable cover, there is no way of telling what is happening either, even if everything appears rock solid and dry like both my Solos always were.
but you can get a very good idea about the side tanks frame structure by accessing any side hatch inspection ones, if possible. Without taking the decks off behind the thwart.
So lets just say I have seen, at least one boat with seemingly much more solid decks(the only thing I needed to dry out were the coats of stainer and varnish, after a week of prepping and removing some strange gouging that was there when I aquired the boat.) fail at that very point and eventually admitedly a couple of years down the line, see that work go to waste.
Even if yours has an upside down L shaped(right angle in side elevation )bracket, that also self taps onto the v of the prow, as well as the bow on topside, early ones just screwed into the top deck joint above the deck laminate,the bracket can pull out(as one did on my 1968 boat)and the fact it was still held in place loosely by the down bit, actually made the situation worse.
The starboard stay broke.
Not wishing to be a profit of doom but it is all too easy to say oh that'll be alright, until it aint any more.
I did even explore the avenue of finding a boat with good topdecks and a damaged hull -the only one potentially sourced was way down in Hampshire, and having got the insurance write off and keep the salvage' resolved by Noble in 5 days, finally after another year or so gavre it best. too much structural damage, so let a friend in the club have her, spares or repair-he still uses the near new Batt sail and boom over cover on his composite Solo.
He says he may or may not get around to trying a rebuild but it gives him an open plan idea of the superstructure.
Best of luck with it anyway. GAVin
Last edited by GAv on Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

solentgal
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Re: On a budget

Post by solentgal » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:41 pm

One further tip.......If you use any new veneer to laminate in, try cutting the shape of the laminate in situ so that the knife/scalpel at least scribes the deck to ensure a perfect fit. However, this does mean not having a bevel on the new bit though. I reckon to remove most of any bad laminate first to assess the situation, and then cut the new as above and then clean up the recess to the scribe line. Sticking down new bits with epoxy can sometimes be done with a piece of polythene and a weight on top depending on where it is, and I agree with Garry re warming/injecting epoxy.
Sami.

roger
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Re: On a budget

Post by roger » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:43 pm

solentgal wrote:Hi Momentum,
......I've learned to tell the difference between a good and bad plywood boat over the years with a few well placed taps!
yep attach tap. Turn on and if water runs out its still damp :lol:

Sorry just couldnt resist it.
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chris
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Re: On a budget

Post by chris » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:34 pm

Letting water in - without a tap - seems to be your problem Roger! If it was just a question of turning the tap off Shoestring would be fine. Still thinking about what you asked the other day....

momentum
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Re: On a budget

Post by momentum » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:39 pm

Maybe someone should write a 'Working with G4' bit for the tips and tools
I think a 'definitive' recommendation would be very useful to a lot of forum readers - current and future.
yep attach tap. Turn on and if water runs out its still damp
Thanks for the advice - though I will reserve judgement on the wit !

Thought I would share the interesting pimping the trailer has already received.
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Rupert
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Re: On a budget

Post by Rupert » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:44 am

Not sure I'd take that trailer very far...

The problem with a definitive G4 thing is that we all have different opinions...

I guess we all agree you need to put 3 coats on in quick succession (the tin says how long), and that once it has gone off for more than a day you need to wait a week or so before even trying to sand back, or the sandpaper just clogs. Once properly hardened, it is very, very hard, and needs an excellent key before varnish. Don't let it pool in corners, it will never go off properly. Don't try and use it if it has started to go gloopy in the tin. Bad mess follows.

And most of all, don't think it is the boatbuilder's wonder substance. It does the job of bodging up old decks very well (and no need for varnish if you don't want to), and it is a good sealent to go on nice decks before varnishing, but I suspect that for this purpose there are better products around, if harder to use and more expensive.
Rupert

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