Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

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Michael Brigg
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Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Michael Brigg » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:52 pm

I came across this today on one of my other "internet p**n" sites (local expression for any web based activity relating to boats or other worthwhile faffage!)
This is from "Rowing Services."


http://noticeboard.rowingservice.com/?display=full#4448
4457.Advice on restoring a timber 8
Hi All,
We may be coming into ownership of an old weathered timber 8+. As we are not the most skilled repairmen would anyone have any advice on how to restore her to her former glory.
She has bbeen stored out in the elements uncovered for at least 2 years (maybe longer).
What should we look for/what are the key elements on restoring a timber boat (apart from age and weathering, there is no apparent damage)
Any advice will be considered.
Matt

Contact: <matt@rowdrite.com.au>

Date Posted: 21st Mar 2012, 11:13
It ocurred to me that this kind of restoration might well have aspects that would benefit from cross pollination. So far as I am aware rhere is also no dedicated rowing site geared towards wooden craft, so this worthy cause is something of an orphan that we could invite on board.

Anyone have any strong feelings?

I will find out if this is a Clinker or a shell, and other detail such as manufacturer etc.

I expect it probably looks like one of these...
Banhams VIII Twice Brewed._0001.jpg
(42.43 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Banhams VIII Twice Brewed._0002.jpg
(35.64 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Michael Brigg

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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Rupert » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Nice looking boats - invite him along! I'm sure he'll get lots of interest and even some advice.
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by roger » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:35 pm

I guess it was a racing dinghy in its day and be regarded as a classic? We have enough rowers here to set up a rowing section anyway.
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Pat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:52 pm

It's all about boat restoration whatever shape the boat!
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Max McCarthy
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Max McCarthy » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:03 pm

I think there should be a section for it, anyway, isn't this the classic vintage dinghy racing association? Dinghy is a broad term usually for a small boat, can we stretch the limits of the word dinghy to mean any boat without a cabin? Then this boat would have a right to fit in here, with all our dinghies.
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Keith66 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:19 am

I am into rowing as well as sailing, its like two worlds that never meet! There is an interesting US based site, http://www.rowableclassics.com/index.html, The rowing world is highly performance oriented & the latest gear is de rigeur, obsolete equipment & boats are worth peanuts. At my club BYC a friend bought a servicable 70's Cold moulded Coastal four for just £100. Secondhand Fine boats are often seen on the rowing service noticeboards for similar prices.
Most of these wooden fine boats are more akin to Aeroplane construction than boats, epoxy wasnt used when they were built, I would be inclined use epoxy only as glue but would not attempt to coat them in the stuff. Better of with decent varnish like Epifanes oil based.

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Ed
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Ed » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:05 am

Gosh......how interesting, Michael and I have often talked about setting up a forum for classic rowing craft, and have thought about setting up a sub-forum here on CVRDA for them......but never thought it would quite fit.

But if it seems like if there might be a general support for the idea of a 'classic-rowing-boats', which I would love. My only worry would be that it could end up being a forum for general recreational rowing boats rather than 'racing' boats. My interest is 'racing' craft.....but maybe this wouldn't matter.

I will ask the committee and see what they say, but looks like some have already given their general support.

I have been in touch with Darryl Strickler in the past, the guy behind the Classic Rowable website and also author of his similarly title book, which is quite beautiful and a really beautiful example of what we could (should) do for classic dinghies:

http://www.amazon.com/Rowable-Classics- ... 086&sr=8-1

He comes over to the UK quite often.....I suggested to him setting up a classic rowing boat forum, but he wasn't sure he wanted to do this, as he is currently writing another book on restoring classic sculls and he worried that his efforts would be split between the two ventures. I tried to suggest quite the opposite might be true, but there you go.

He obviously really knows his stuff on this subject.

Of course the history of classic sculls is now being lost in the same way that it is with dinghies and we are sadly loosing builders/owners to old age at an alarming rate. Darryl had done a very good job in collating materials on these boats and their builders, but there is still very little interest in them, either for restoration or for racing.

We have also talked about trying to have a small gathering for classic sculls.....maybe at the Thames Traditional regatta? I have since discovered that the rowing club in Teignmouth, has a well established wing of classic boat, who I am going to try and meet up with at some stage.

Any way, good to hear about everyone's interest. Thanks Michael for bringing it up.

I will talk with committee about idea of establishing a sub-forum.

What would we call it?

eib
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by davidh » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:35 am

All,

I would not be happy if it was the case that my voice was the only one heard in opposition BUT....before you go down this route, I would urge a great deal of caution. Ed I think hit the nail on the head with his words about how it would 'fit'.......because to me, it wouldn't.

Now someone taking the concept of the CVRDA and building a sister site, along the same lines, now that is an idea that I'm 100% in favour off. You've already got the tried and tested 'how to do it' already sorted, you just need to find out how to make the 'wing' (or oars??) map on to the boats that are out there.

As to why I would say no to bringing them on board, when I think the idea of a CVRDA for the rowers is such a good idea:

If you cast your mind back, not far either, we had a lot of turmoil in the cvrda when moves were underfoot to get an 'eastern wing' established. At the time, one of the arguements was that the CVRDA was heavily baised towards the South West of England. Although this was a painful time, the end result has been a bigger and better CVRDA that has now become a nationally spread 'broad church' and is now looking to be growing far beyond the original ideas of Ed and Neil (who if I recall were initially working with just Fairey Boats). Certainly, the good work that Roger is doing with regard to Holt at Wraysbury Lake,, in fact all of the Holt work, is showing that we're doing things right...it's a great example of 'what it says on the box'. Not just the boats, but the knowledge too, the CVRDA is not a collection of merely browsed books in a museum, the boats are out there racing - doing what they were originally intended for.

So the CVRDA is getting it right, but I council that it would be easy to undo all this good work by trying to be 'all things to all men' (sorry if that is not PC). What happens next when someone comes along with a classic steam driven slipper launch (I'd love one) - their wish for inclusion could be as compelling as that for the rowers. And t hinking back to the early Fairey days, I know someone who has a Fairey Fawn (if you do not know your Fairey Boats, that is a Falcon without the rig and a litle aircooled inboard - a real river boat)....oh look, it's classic, it's Fairey, but it is not a CVRDA boat (I hope) and to be honest, nor should it be.

When those critics of the CVRDA pedalled their sadly outspoken views a few years back, it was possible to see that there were though some elements of truth in what was being said. It is to the credit of Roger and now Rupert that the CVRDA is now bigger, stronger and better than ever and if the interest that I saw generated at the Dinghy Show is anything to go by, there is a buoyancy about the future of the Association that augers well for the future.

The CVRDA is far from broke, so doesn't need fixing. So let it grow, but please ,let it be.....

Dougal
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by alan williams » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:10 am

Hi
I have to agree with Dave on this (twice in one year), we cannot be seen to be all things to all men. I have seen this happen too frequently in the past at sailing clubs. That have then become watersports clubs, then becoming a club which is no longer a basic sailing club but a yacht club or a canoeing club as they have recruited the most members take over forcing out the original founders of the dinghy sailing club. By trying to accommodate everyone the the ethos and then the intial mission is lost due to a dilution of interests, fragmention then occurs and collapse. Please set up a Classic Oars Assoc. but don't dilute the CVRDA.
Cheers Al

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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by davidh » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:34 am

Al... you've worrying me.....twice in one year (but like the summery weather, it won't last!!)

But thank you, for all the time I was writing I had a phrase in my head about the dangers of diluting the effort - then promptly forgot it! As soon as I saw your posting I thought.."ah... that was just what I wanted to say".

I'll not go back an edit my posting as you've said it for me but I would add that in these days of struggling clubs and classes, perception counts for so much. If people see us veering towards position of the classic everything association, then we're in trouble.

Maybe....just maybe, there could be an umbrella website that does encompass the lot - from fairey powerboats to the old canvas canoes. But with the exception of size in bargaining power (and isn't that what the RYA is supposed to do for us) it is hard to see the added value in all of this - a bit like the Unitary Authorities of the 1980s and 90s - just another level of bureaucratic going nowhere thinking, however well intentioned.

D
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Max McCarthy » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:59 am

Dougal and Al, you have persuaded me, I am no longer of the opinion I was, but I now agree with you. I would hate to see the cvrda go down the same route as so many former sailing clubs. The dilutation of the cvrda, would be awful. If it would mean a loss of the original cause of what the cvrda is about, I hope Dougal, and Al, you get what you want for the cvrda, rather then this change in what the cvrda is about and for.
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Ed » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:18 pm

Well fair enough....

As I said, we have never suggested it in the past due to the lack of 'fit'.....and the feeling that some of the membership, wouldn't 'like it'....so if people feel strongly against it.....then I sure as hell wouldn't push it.

But for all that....

We are not talking here about opening our membership to classic racing rowing boats, nor putting on CVRDA events for them, nor even having an unofficial 'wing' for them (as per the post 65 designed boats - Phantoms, M14s etc)....just about having a sub-forum for those interested in rowing boats to talk about it.

In reality, I know from experience, the rowing fraternity have absolutely no interest in or support for their heritage boats at all. I think you would be lucky to get more than a handful of people even reading it.....and to be honest, in my experience, most of the people interested in classic sculling boats, are interested in classic boats anyway and most probably already have an interest in racing dinghies.

To be honest, I can think of no place with more people already interested in classic rowing racing craft than here on this forum. I would agree that 'if' it turned out that there was a great deal (or enough) of support for a 'rowable classics' association, then they should start their own, but I fear that it is just so unlikely to happen.

I agree that I wouldn't like the CVRDA to include motorboats (even Fairey ones), nor for that matter am I keen on us having much interest in cruising dinghies - just not my thing and this is the 'Classic & Vintage RACING DINGHY Association. I certainly wouldn't want to re-write the constitution to allow rowing boats into the CVRDA.

But that wasn't the suggestion. The suggestion was to consider having a sub-forum for our members to discuss 'classic racing rowing craft'.

As ever, there seems to be some confusion as to what the CVRDA is....and what the forum is.

@DH, fwiw, The CVRDA was originally started by myself, Andy Hayes & Bob Corefield, then quickly supported by Bella, Rob, Rupert, Chris, Alan, Roadford Lake SC and others.

The original website was started by myself and Neil suggested, installed and ran the forum.

I only have a honorary role on the present committee, Neil is not on the committee. However we both still administer and moderate the forum.

Personally, I can see absolutely no parallels at all with the situation last year and the ridiculous West vs East arguments.

Best Wishes

eib
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by davidh » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:37 pm

Well said Ed.

Just to clarify...I hope, but I may have said things not that well, but I was not trying to draw a parallel with what went before. No, what I was trying to point out was that since recovering from that bad outbreak of 'growing pains', the CVRDA is now not just west and east, but north, south and middle too. I think there has been something of an explosion in interest and a quick look at the very full events programme for the year shows just how far the Assoication has come.

Given the overall 'health' of the dinghy scene (outside of yoof and the more elite divisions) it's my view that the CVRDA is now one of the really good success stories; If we still had a dinghy focused media outlet I could see more and more opportunities for coverage. From Roger's Holt event, the Nationals (I'm sure that Trevor C will be on top of the promotion for that), the Bosham event, there are classic dinghy happenings all over.....

Do we want to dilute what we have, having had such a path to get there in the first place? My view was no, but that is not in iteslf a barrier, for that is just one viewpoint.
Personally, I hope that the debate on this continues, for it shows not just the level of interest in the 'classics' of all varieties, but also the fact that we can now happily accomodate differing views whilst still working together - and going forward.

D
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Rupert » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:57 pm

Interesting reading from all sides - and I'm not sure I agree (or quite disagree) with any of you!

If someone posts on the repairs part of the forum about an old boat, whether it be sailing or rowing, wood or GRP, racing or cruising or even perhaps one with a motor, (though I suspect our levels of interest fade pretty quickly there - mine do, anyway) seeking advice from people with the knowledge to get it back on the water, I don't think a reply of "go away, we only do classic racing dinghies here" would either be desireable or would happen.
Now it may be that the question is one that could be better answered elsewhere, perhaps by the DCA,or the forum of PBO, or wherever, and I hope that we would know where to pass them to. But someone asking how to repair a cold moulded long rowing boat thing (scull? - out of depth on rowing boat names) would be able to get expert advice from those of us who have cross-over knowledge, and I can see nothing wrong wth that at all.

When it comes to putting a new sub-forum on, I'd be far less worried about being taken over by rowers than it just sitting there rather sad and unused, which never looks good on a forum. Odd threads on rowing boats would quite happily fit into the existing catagories when they arise.

Final thought on this - if someone posted for advice on their Fairey Duckling, we would be happy to help. If subsequently, we discovered it was the rowing only version, would we be any less interested in the problems and their solutions?
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Re: Restoring an old timber rowing VIII

Post by Keith66 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:14 pm

I would see little point in a sub forum, if you are into such boats fair enough but i think it wouldnt get used much, there is simply not enough interest in such boats. Rowers are a funny lot. Those who row fixed seat dont associate with sliding seat rowers & the sliding seat brigade are often obsessed with performance & are often elitist. I am reminded of a few years ago when i was setting up a new Rowing club locally. While picking brains i spoke to the Captain of Deal RC, (they row coastal sliding seat boats) I asked him "if there were any Deal Galleys still in existence", he replied that "there is one in the museum a hundred yards from the club house but i have never seen it". This in a town famed for the skill & seamanship of its beachmen with every bit as long & proud a history as the Scilly isles Pilot Gigs. It was simply that they were not in the slightest bit interested in the history.
Me i just like boats! i sail, i row i build the things.
If people want to ask for advice well & good you can find it here or on the Wooden boat forum.

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