Ply for Albacore hull repair
Ply for Albacore hull repair
Can anyone recommend a source of appropriate marine quality ply for making patch repairs to cold-moulded Albacore or Firefly hulls? The boat I'm repairing has a Fairey hull. Even better has anyone got a part sheet or resonable size offcut that I might buy?
Thanks
Thanks
Mr. Ben
RYA Training Principal- Thames Sailing Club
Merlin Rocket Star 1842 'Emmeline'
RYA Training Principal- Thames Sailing Club
Merlin Rocket Star 1842 'Emmeline'
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
Agba constructional veneers are what you need. Trouble is, the ones you can get these days tend to be darker than what was around back in the day. If you aren't worried too much about a darker patch, I have some I could send you. If you are, then a trip to somewhere like Robbins timber, but in London, would be your best bet, to try and match the wood. That golden colour is very difficult to find, though.
Rupert
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
I have bought Agba from Robbins and it has been a reasonable colour match.
but do bear in mind that it does fade quite a bit over the first couple of years, so even if it does look a bit dark to start off with, it does tend to fade down to fit.
eib
but do bear in mind that it does fade quite a bit over the first couple of years, so even if it does look a bit dark to start off with, it does tend to fade down to fit.
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
Thnak you guys for the replies. Forgive my ignorance but is constructional veneer essential a single ply veneer with which you essentially build your own ply or is it already a multi-laminated ply and that's what makes it 'constructional'? From what I recall of a repair job I did 2 years ago to the hull of a Firefly, the hull was essentially built by laminating 2 layers of 3 ply.
Cheers
Cheers
Mr. Ben
RYA Training Principal- Thames Sailing Club
Merlin Rocket Star 1842 'Emmeline'
RYA Training Principal- Thames Sailing Club
Merlin Rocket Star 1842 'Emmeline'
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
its just the veneer...a single layer leaf.
you build up the ply by layering each veneer on top of the others, following the original direction of grain.
You can see the construction in the wonderful old Pathe film at:
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/firefly-racing-dinghy
you have to replace it layer by layer.
cheers
eib
you build up the ply by layering each veneer on top of the others, following the original direction of grain.
You can see the construction in the wonderful old Pathe film at:
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/firefly-racing-dinghy
you have to replace it layer by layer.
cheers
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
Constructional veneer is just to distinguish it from decorative veneers, which are rather thinner. I think Fairey's used wood about 1/6 of an inch thick. Was the Albacore 5 ply?
Rupert
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
I would of thought the Albi was only 3 layers.
the Jollyboat is only 3....although I think that the Finns may of been 4 layers??
1/6 of an inch seems a bit thick?? that would equate to a hull thickness of 1/2in, which seems a bit thick?? I would of guessed the veneers were around 1/8th?? But it has seemed to me like they would keep there best veneers for the outside layers and not worry so much about the inner layers.
one of the issues of the current veneer available from Robbins is that it is just under 3mm (even 2.5mm) and does not quite come up to quite the same thickness without a little padding.
The outer layer often ends up thinner anyway, due to sanding over the years.
cheers
eib
eib
the Jollyboat is only 3....although I think that the Finns may of been 4 layers??
1/6 of an inch seems a bit thick?? that would equate to a hull thickness of 1/2in, which seems a bit thick?? I would of guessed the veneers were around 1/8th?? But it has seemed to me like they would keep there best veneers for the outside layers and not worry so much about the inner layers.
one of the issues of the current veneer available from Robbins is that it is just under 3mm (even 2.5mm) and does not quite come up to quite the same thickness without a little padding.
The outer layer often ends up thinner anyway, due to sanding over the years.
cheers
eib
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
I'll let you know how many ply there are if I end up having to go right through the hull but I'm hoping the rot doesn't penetrate that far! I may well gratefully take you up on the offer of offcuts Rupert though I'll need to cut away to determine how far the rot goes so I wont know how much I need until then. I'll be extremely concerned if I end up needing a whole sheet! (know your limitations...)
Cheers
Cheers
Mr. Ben
RYA Training Principal- Thames Sailing Club
Merlin Rocket Star 1842 'Emmeline'
RYA Training Principal- Thames Sailing Club
Merlin Rocket Star 1842 'Emmeline'
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
1/16", Ed - typo there...
It may well be that Firefly veneers are thinner than JB'?
It may well be that Firefly veneers are thinner than JB'?
Rupert
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
Most Finns are 3 layers, although some Fairey Finns (my old K155) had 4 layers in the floor and 3 in the topsides in anticipation of a rule change when glassfibre was introduced (The rules had to be changed because they couldn't demand an equal thickness throughout the hull anymore).
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
Here is a good London supplier of veneers http://www.capitalcrispin.com/veneer_index.aspx if you go to the bottom of the linked page they list their construction veneers, but sadly it does not list Agba. Give them a call, they are very helpful. 1/16" = 1.6mm approx. They will deliver by post.
John Hartley
Wayfarer 7628 - Fantasia
International 14 521 - Tiptoes
50% Victory Z68 - Zarena
Wayfarer 7628 - Fantasia
International 14 521 - Tiptoes
50% Victory Z68 - Zarena
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
@rupert
Ah.....well....off top of head I would of said that 1/16 was too thin
As for them being different thicknesses, that is interesting, my first reaction is not.....but now I think about it, I do seem to remember that the veneers used on the Finn were a bit thicker?? Pete?? so maybe they do vary in thickness.
To be honest, I kinda feel that between the two of us....we should know the answer to that one! I am not sure I have a micrometer to hand, but if I find one, I will measure up what I have and tell you.
Anyway, my experience is that the Robbins Agba veneer is a little thinner than you really want....but whether that was for the Jollyboat, 14 or Firefly....I just can't remember!
Either way, I don't really think it makes much difference, you use what you can get and make it fit as best you can.
cheers
eib
Ah.....well....off top of head I would of said that 1/16 was too thin
As for them being different thicknesses, that is interesting, my first reaction is not.....but now I think about it, I do seem to remember that the veneers used on the Finn were a bit thicker?? Pete?? so maybe they do vary in thickness.
To be honest, I kinda feel that between the two of us....we should know the answer to that one! I am not sure I have a micrometer to hand, but if I find one, I will measure up what I have and tell you.
Anyway, my experience is that the Robbins Agba veneer is a little thinner than you really want....but whether that was for the Jollyboat, 14 or Firefly....I just can't remember!
Either way, I don't really think it makes much difference, you use what you can get and make it fit as best you can.
cheers
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
My Robbins veneers are 3mm (1/8th in old money). They are too thin for the hull and too thick for the side tanks! The boat's at the club at the mo so I cannot measure the veneers but I think they're 3/16ths which doesn't have a metric equivalent which might be why they cannot be got in the correct thickness. I've always struggled to do perfect repairs because of this but epoxy is a wonderful bodger's friend!
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
Ben, happy to pop some bits in the post so you can see if they are of any use. Just pm me your address and what sizes you need.
Rupert
Re: Ply for Albacore hull repair
Hello
Just to say that I had some damage on my Albacore 5893, following a collision during racing, which required a new piece of Agba to be let into the hull. The boat was built in 1976 by Knight and Pink. The repair was carried out under insurance by Derek Jolly in Chorley. When discussing the repair, he said that I could have a repair which would match immediately, but change over time, or a lighter piece which would darken over time to match the rest of the hull. I chose the latter option and over a period of about 6 months the wood did indeed blend in. Unfortunately the file sizes of the photos I want to attach to show the initial repair and 6 months later are too big, but I am happy to email them.
Hope this helps
Graham L
Flying Fifteen 617
Albacore 5893
Firefly 2380
Just to say that I had some damage on my Albacore 5893, following a collision during racing, which required a new piece of Agba to be let into the hull. The boat was built in 1976 by Knight and Pink. The repair was carried out under insurance by Derek Jolly in Chorley. When discussing the repair, he said that I could have a repair which would match immediately, but change over time, or a lighter piece which would darken over time to match the rest of the hull. I chose the latter option and over a period of about 6 months the wood did indeed blend in. Unfortunately the file sizes of the photos I want to attach to show the initial repair and 6 months later are too big, but I am happy to email them.
Hope this helps
Graham L
Flying Fifteen 617
Albacore 5893
Firefly 2380