Classic 14 reefing system

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rme_01
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Classic 14 reefing system

Post by rme_01 »

A couple of years ago I posted a query regarding the purpose of a winch on the thwart of my 1957 Fairey International 14 (see attached photo). I subsequently received a reply suggesting this was to do with an automatic reefing system that was being experimented with at the time but proved more trouble than it was worth.

Coincidentally a few days ago I came across a reference to this in a 1956 book by Bob Bavier Jnr under a chapter headed British High Performance Centreboarderers (something of a novelty to Americans at the time). Discussing International 14’s he writes:

“The large sail area has also prompted the development of special reefing gears, in which the main halyard is automatically slacked away as the rotation of the boom rolls in the reef. It is part of the technique of sailing these boats in heavy weather to be able to reef for windward work but use more sail for planning off the wind”

This has sparked my interest (perhaps a love of failed inventions!) and I would like to know more about the mechanics of the system with a view perhaps to recreating it. To that end does anyone have any further information (drawings, photos etc.) or indeed the old components (excluding the winch which I have) that they would be willing to part with?

I have incidentally decided to complete the restoration of this boat. I did post that she was for sale some months ago following a back injury but have been encouraged to see it through as a recuperation target – the health benefits of wooden dinghies!

Robert
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Ed
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by Ed »

I might have a handle....

If memory serves, they had a smaller spigot or say about 3/8th square and the normal halyard winch used by Fairey was around 1/2 to 5/8th. Memory of this is from my childhood on Jollyboat J4.

I am afraid I have long ago lost the winch itself.

Personally, I think what killed the system most was that the wire was not turned through blocks, but through long aluminium tubes. Of course the galvanised wire cut into these internally and then started to grab and stick.

I did also have a claw (stainless & tufnol), but this came with my I14 K556 and I suspect it went with the boat too.

I do have a more modern claw still, a big chunky aluminium thing.

Of course to make this work properly you do need all the parts.....not just the winch, but the handle, the tubing, I think there might of been one turning block at bottom of mast, the boom, the claw and the claw-strut, with extra gooseneck. mmmm I also suspect the sail would of needed to be cut specifically for the system also.

it may be that I have some photos of one from the MDL Fairey 50th aniverssary regatta in 1995? Can dig out if you wish.

In theory it should of worked well.

But I am afraid I can't remember ever being able to make it work well in practice.

We would just let off the kicker, then let the main halyard go a specific no of clicks on the winch, then spin the boom by hand on the gooseneck, put claw over boom, slip on the claw strut to the lower gooseneck, reattach kicker. Pull the halyard back up on winch, re-apply kicker and off you went.

So in effect use the system, but not the winch.

I remember it well. You will imagine that as a young child, most of the operation of this was left to me and my step-brother, whilst my father gave encouragement.

It would be good to have the whole system working again. possibly with blocks or at least stainless tube.

cheers

eib
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rme_01
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by rme_01 »

Thanks for yours. The winch spigot is 1/2 in square - if you have a spare going I would be pleased to bid for it as although I have a similar halyard winch handle for my older 14 you cant have too many!

I think you are right about the aluminium tube as this would explain a rather odd curved groove in the hog by the mast step. It seems an odd idea when a turning block would have been so much simpler. The claw presumably relates to maintaining the kicking strap on the rolled boom using a rod attached to the gooseneck to hold it in the right position.

What puzzles me still is the mechanics of the thing. To fit in with the "automatic" description I assume it must have been a continuous loop system cunningly geared so as to match the boom diameter with the length of halyard to be released whilst still retaining sufficient luff tension albeit I would have thought that would fall apart with the increasing boom diameter as progressive rolls were taken. Maybe I am assuming too much so any photos you have would be most interesting. I have seen a picture of something similar described as the Bruce Banks self compensating reefing gear in the Int 14 handbook but a Google search failed to yield any results.

On a more general point it is surprising how few dinghies you see reefed these days particularly given the popularity of slab reefing for upwind work on the offshore boats. I suppose the difference is the degree of "movable ballast". I have seen Comets with a simple slab reefing system which could be taken in and let out easily on the water if you weren't bothered about tying in reefing points. Far simpler than the above!
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by Ed »

Yes, your presumptions on craw are correct. may have photos of my old one somewhere, but certainly not in action.

I can't remember if it was a continuous system....and not really sure about how automatic it was. I seem to remember just letting off a few clicks on the halyard, then turning the reefing winch the amount you wanted and then re-tensioning the halyard.

The more I think about it, I reckon it was not continuous, you pulled the reefs in and the wind blew them out.

The reefing wire wrapped around a drum (around an inch wide) which was on the very end of the boom. The sail was cut back to give room for it.

Of course, on a winch/halyard and cotton or old undersized terryln sails, you adjusted the luff tension with the winch rather than with a cunningham. As crew you had be good with the handle and the winch-paw. It was normally easy to adjust, but if you got it wrong and the paw flicked right back, then the whole boom/sail would fall down onto your heads.

if memory serves, the crew would let off a bit on the halyard from the winch....the helm would then pull the reef in and the crew would then re-tension to required tension.

Again, if memory serves.....( it was a damned long while ago and I was quite young :-) ) I think the limiting factor was that you couldn't put in a 'tuck' as you sometimes need to do when reefing, so you ended up with the boom end getting lower and lower.

As we know, all in all the detrimental effects on the boats handling by the misshapen sail from reefing quickly made it less than effective.

If you keep nagging me I will do a drawing of how it worked...

Re: the handle, I will look and see how many spares I have got....as you say, you can never have too many....but it may be that I have 3 or 4.....or it may be that I gave a spare or two when I sold the 14.

cheers

eib
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by kfz »

From purely interest point of view. having fitted both roller and slab reefing to by modern boat (1962). How does the above roller system take into account the different length of luff and leach, when doing it be hand its essential to put a tight well placed tuck in the leach. In fact I always found this the hardest bit to do and near impossible afloat in any conditions that meant you might want to reef.

Changed to simple two line but led forward slab system 2 seasons ago and never looked aback. (well apart from the extra complication).

Im also supprised the amount of boats that dont carry it. I think in a small way done in inland sailing and 100% safety cover????

Kev
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by davidh »

I'm pretty certain that although your Fairey boats had this that the reefing system itself was devised by Austin 'Clarence' Farrar. Of course, seeing that he crewed a great deal for Charles Currey would explain the link up and does suggest that if you have the whole system that your boat could have been one in which the pair sailed together!

I'll check my books - I have a copy of David Chivers excellent biography on Austin - I am sure that there is reference in it there!

D
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by alan williams »

Hi 732 Audacity ( David Miles design), had this reefing system when Pat and I sailed her. It was the first thing to be thrown away in the update to a trapeze and modernisation. The boom was transom sheeted, had wedges attached which were wider at the transom end and tapered to the gooseneck. This was thrown out when we changed to center mainsheet. We replaced the entire rig with a new Modern (then), Proctor Beta Minus mast, Musto Sails very big 300sqft reaching spinnacker and a 90sqft genoa. Cut away the transom reinforced the centerboard case and had lighter foils made. We did try the system out before we removed it and it seemed to work reasonably well. The system was continous and the boom took up the slack as the main halyard was eased.
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by Ed »

@kev.....as I said in post the problem with lack of 'tuck' seemed to be the limiting factor.

@Alan....we never had any wedges, but this would seem like a useful addition to make the system work, bearing in mind the problems that kev mentions.

@David......no idea who came up with the idea, but wouldn't imagine it was Fairey, unless Charles Currry, so your suggestion makes total sense. I would of thought at one stage there were quite a few about. I have owned one boat with it, one boat with evidence of having it (actually maybe more). But was most probably put into boats that already had winches on the halyards, so the boat already had handles and a crew used to working with the winches. All the boats I have seen with it, were Fairey, but some nagging thought in back of head suggests to me that I have seen a Souters 14 with the system.

Stangely enough, I always found the halyard winches really very efficient and as long as the jib-halyard was heavy enough, gave an easy way of reliably and repeatabley setting rig and luff tensions.

eib
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by jpa_wfsc »

rme_01 wrote: I have seen Comets with a simple slab reefing system which could be taken in and let out easily on the water if you weren't bothered about tying in reefing points. Far simpler than the above!
The Comet system works really well and we can show you this at the training weekend at WSC.. It is very quick to get a reef in or out. However - not perhaps at the top of every beat and the bottom of every run! For racing, effective sail controls allowing one to flatten the sail upwind and fatten it up again downwind are more than enough for all but survival conditions I think.
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by Rupert »

I'd say the development of the bendy mast, coupled with effective controls, as John says, allowing you to "hang on" up wind, then power up off wind is the reason reefing has all but vanished in racing dinghies.

The Trio has a bit of a telegraph pole for a mast, and very simple controls, and is aimed at the cruiser racer market, hence the reefing. Does work well.
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by davidh »

the more research I do into the Merlin Rocket Book, the more I wonder at how the 'golden era' took off: I've got pictures of boats going back to the 1940s, then interviews with people who raced them then and to be honest - it's scary. Heavy, unyielding wooden masts, baggy cotton mainsails, non existent sail controls and those fittings that did exist didn't really 'help' the sailor.

I don't think that there was any one 'factor' but simply the fact that over a period of 25 -30 years everything changed.

So - if you look at the wonderfully restored Gently - that I sailed in the Tideway - you can then jump forward to the Smokers Satisfaction (just 29 years between the two boats) and in that time everything we think about as 'normal' had arrived. Stable sail cloth, control over the rig in all ways, better foils (another of those big factors) and even apparent 'little things' - like modern quality cordage.....

I still think of that afternoon sailing in Gently - unable to change the sail shape but then why would I - you couldn't 'read' the shape anyway.... and yes, I can understand why, in any breeze, you'd need to reef.

BTW - the reefing system for the 14 was indeed developed by Austin Farrar - so that would clearly explain the link to Fairey boats!

D
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by chris »

David, I would think that the fact that the gooseneck was on a track allowed for the boom to be pulled downwards thus performing some of the task of a cunningham. In fact on Kate's original mast there is no bolt arrangement to look it in place at all. Instead there is just a ring on the goosneck fitting with a rope leading down to a cleat...reasonably adjustable. Probably that and the transom mainsheet were better controls than the rather feeble kicker they had.
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by Ed »

On the Fairey system, using a winch....

the goosnecks, both of them because there were two, one for the boom and one 3 or 4 inches below for the claw-strut, were fixed.

As I said the boom went on the top one and could be spun around as the gooseneck and boom fitting were round.

You could also (if you so wished, just put the boom on the lower goosneck), which if memory serves we used to do, if we knew we were not going to have to reef.

the luff tension could be easily adjusted though....simply on the winch. Very easy to over-stretch or slacken off by knocking off a click at a time on the winch pawl. You would just take off the tension, click the pawl up and let it back to the next stop less tension. Honestly it was very easy and effective to do.

Of course in these days, the sail would not of been up to the full length in the luff allowing you to pull the luff up to the mark.

hope that makes sense

cheers

eib
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by kfz »

jpa_wfsc wrote:
rme_01 wrote: I have seen Comets with a simple slab reefing system which could be taken in and let out easily on the water if you weren't bothered about tying in reefing points. Far simpler than the above!
The Comet system works really well and we can show you this at the training weekend at WSC.. It is very quick to get a reef in or out. However - not perhaps at the top of every beat and the bottom of every run! For racing, effective sail controls allowing one to flatten the sail upwind and fatten it up again downwind are more than enough for all but survival conditions I think.

Is this an excuse to put a picture of Swordfish up, simple slab reefing with two seperate lines for the generous reefs led to the front of the boom. The tack has a single line terminsating in a hook for the tack cringle, I previously had twin tack downhauls but found it a bit messy.

Any first reef in (conditions had mellowed at ths point but Nelson wreck had seen waves > 6ft and you can sea the second line ready to pull on as needed. Good example of sailing with the unused bunt of the sail left loose. Hopefully no need to say the location...... its nice pic, makes me smile. Just need a little more main halyard tension.


Image
swordfish by lsc2006, on Flickr
Bill-Conner
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Re: Classic 14 reefing system

Post by Bill-Conner »

Except it is a GP 14 not a SWordfish!
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