Fireball Refurb

[smilicus]

Hello All

New to this group, but not to sailing or forums. First things first, Congrats on a great site and very insightful, helpful and interesting forum.

I am collecting an old wooden fireball this weekend that is still in good nick, but needs a cosmetic make over as well as an update on some of the hardware. Here is what is needed to be done:

1. Good sand down to bare wood, the boat has a messy paint and epoxy job
2. The Spinnaker Shoot will be closed (scarf joint) and brought up to the newer version wooden versions with the dual spinnaker bags.
3. Since there is damage/paint, etc to the beauty of the wood over the years, the hull will be painted with a 2k paint
4. Some wood trimmings in the cockpit to round it off and give some wood feel to it.
5. Ad some new hardware for the jib and spinnaker system.
6. Go sailing

So , this said, I will post here some pictures as I go along and OBVIOUSLY ask a lot of advice and questions from all of you in the forum...

Here is few pics of the boat so long that I have gotten from the current owner.





Happy sailing all

Johan

[kfz]

Johan,

Welcome, looks a interesting project, keep the pics coming...

Kev

[smilicus]

Hello Guys

Let the questions start...

First Question of many to follow over the next few weeks: I will be sanding the Fireball down to bare wood again, so would remove all the fittings. Do I leave the holes or fill them with eposy and re-drill them later again?

Only asking since I might after the paint job is done change the layout of the blocks, cleats, etc to the more recent configuration.

Second Question: I will be using an orbital Sander to get the main volume of paint and epoxy off. What is the lowest grid paper I can start with? Thought of 120, then 180 and then 240 when I am almost near the bare wood.

Till alter then.

Johan

[bornagainmothie]

That looks like a lot of work, good luck!

To answer your questions I would suggest leaving the sander alone until you stripped the paint using a hot air gun and scraper. Use as little heat as poss and a pull scraper with the grain trying not to dig the corners in. Sanding the paint will just clog the paper. Use the sander with 120 paper to clean the scrapes and last bits of paint away, then hand sand with a block to remove the swirl marks the sander leaves behind.

Before you start all that though, take a step back and think about how you might use such a classic Fireball when it does reach the water. If you intend to modernise the rig setup and use it as a racing machine even at a modest club level, it will need some structural work to make it stronger, and a lot of money spent on pulleys and ropes! Decide on the rig systems first, then rebuild the boat around them. Don't even think about paint and varnish till you know where everything fits and all the fixing points are ready.

With any Spinnaker trapeze boat, the key to enjoyment is making it work - Reliably. On a screaming spinnaker reach, the last thing you want is something jamming on that sticky-out fitting that always gets in the way, or vital parts flying off with their 1/2" screws attached. It can get Dangerous at that speed!!!

As well as my Moth, I sail a 1987 wood Fireball. Its still a bit too new to be CVRDA eligible, but when driven hard enough it beats many brand new plastic boats. We still use a chute, and its quicker and more reliable than bag system if you sail mostly on flat water. The only disadvantage is in a choppy sea when it funnels water in very efficiently.

Older boats were not built to withstand anything like the rig tension that a modern rig needs. If you check the layout of later wooden boats and especially the FRP Winders you will see lots more bulkheads and bracing which triangulate the load from mast, shrouds and jib, and support the centreboard case. Without that bracing the boat can literally split apart if overstressed, so its worth building in while the boat is stripped. Plywood on edge with epoxy fillets is immensely strong and light. I would consider re-decking at least the front half in order to add the strengthening, especially if you do decide to remove the chute.

As for the rig and systems, have a look at the Draycote Fireball website. There are lots of pictures and explaination of bag and chute systems, and rigging guides. http://www.draycotewater.co.uk/fleets/fireball/

Lyndon
Fireball 13918

[kfz]

Johan,

Last things first. I wouldnt start with the sander. I find that it will just clogg up with varnish and paint. Strip the old stuff with the heat gun (or may choose to use a chemical stripper) then sand. you can make a call on whats underneath then. Much less chance of uneven sanding and damaging the top veneer.

The orbital is a good choice once the finish is removed, Id just use 120 and then finish by hand with 240 to be honest with a cork block (call me old fashioned).

At this point it would be a good position to decide which holes you want to keep and those you dont. I would tend to plug old holes rather than fill them. It looks nicer especially if you make a good job of it and 2 if you do redrill it will hold a thread much better than epoxy will.

Kev

[smilicus]

Thanks for the advice Kev and Lydon.

I am only changing the chute since I will be sailing in more choppy water than flat...otherwise I would leave it as is (actually like the look of the chute at the bow). The main change will be to just get the new bag system going and maybe tweek a few positions of the blocks...would not go with the new ultra modern setup and expensive kit...not in my budget and I will not race competitively that much, more rather a weekend warrior ( or should I say Sailor).

Don't think we still get cork blocks any more in South Africa, but will go with the advice of rather hand sanding with 240 than orbital sanding.

Well, Off to the hardware store to buy a heat guy and scrapper.

Till later guys

[roger]

Well, Off to the hardware store to buy a heat guy and scrapper.

Till later guys

All good advice above. Add a file to your shopping list to keep the scraper sharp.

[JimC]

On bare wood, yes we all do it, but the advice I've seen from the paint people is not to go back to bare wood unless you have adhesion problems. Try taking it down to good undercoat and apart from everything else you'll save a lot of paint, if probably pay fo rit in sanding disks.

[smilicus]

Hello Guys

Thanks for that, the boat has not been primmed before paint, or so it looks to me, so will only see if I need to sand down to bare wood when I collect the boat on Saturday and start with the process.

I have read on a few other forums (boat forums) that people are having good results with a paint stripper like NitroMors on their wooden boats.

They use it sparingly.

What is your take on it? Should I consider paint stripper for wood?

Take care

P.S. Could not find a heat gun at any of our hardware stores here

[roger]

Does amazon reach you


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-17 ... ot+air+gun

[GAVinT]

I have owned 3 Furballs I did this little pic of the first one after I sold her, I was doing more river boat cruising at that time but have to say I really was sorry for the first time before or since, to see a boat go.
this one Slick Willey never seemed the same, built by Milne in Perth Australia, I gather he(ol slick) was a junior champ winning boat maybe too good for my limited abilities, mainly single handed, went after I bought a 57 Merlin Rocket, however the third which I brought back from Rainham, and later found not to have the right ply cuts to finish, didnt check beforehand all the old stuff on top, new beneath i got told hrmm, and just had a load of old decking.

ps I do think my current Minisail Sprite is more like a scaled down Fireball as opposed to the Monaco Sprint more akin to a small Tempo in shapeFortunately they have escaped a burn up!!!

[smilicus]

Thanks for the pictures GAVinT, looks like you are quite the artist

Happy sailing all

[smilicus]

Hello Guys

Collected the boat on Saturday



Not then most ideal way of transporting it 190km to my home, but only one available at the time



At least my dog approves



Hull number in the wood (SA7747)



This weekend there will be lots of Sanding done.
Quick question, the previous owner was not able to tell me if Epoxy or varnish was used, how can I tell the two apart? And if it is epoxy, will I be able (since it still looks good) to give it a brisk sanding with 120 then 240 grid (not to bare wood) and put new layer of epoxy on or should I sand to bare wood?

Take care

[davidh]

Johan,

with the large flat panels on the F'ball I'd not go anywhere near a sander for the hull - unless you have amazing skills you'll get marks that no matter how good you are at 'post sanding filling' will still show once the top coat is on. Nor would I use heat and /or/ nitromors.

If ever there is a job that should be longboarded it is this; you'll want some foam 'boards' - about 18" - 2 ft long by 4" wide and about an inch in depth..... plus either a glue gun or some double sided sticky tape (the latter is fiddly but better in my estimation). Start with some seriously heavy grit to rip off the hardened top coats, work over quite a large area, then redo with an easier grit, then finish off with 240 grade. Early on you'll find that you're getting through a lot of grit paper as the old paint clogs it up but it quickly gets easier.

With a sail number in the 77xxs, I doubt if the hull was epoxied - in the end only you can decide if you want to invest the time and effort into doing the hull. If you do, get the hull as good as you can, roller/pad on the epoxy then long board before painting with high building, sanding, sanding and...sanding. Finish with two pot and you'll have a wonderful, long lasting finish.

As for the decks - total care at all times so as to not leave unsightly marks - unless the decks are in poor condition already.

If the hull is sound then getting it ready and painted is not a big job but it can be a bit of a slog - though funnily enough, long boards get you better results and in the end are quicker!

But I stress again- those long flat panels on the F'Ball can look stunning or can look...like they've been attacked with an orbital sander!

D

[kfz]

You'll know full well if you reach the epoxy with the hot sir gun since it wont lift it. The varnish will fly off.

Not a fan of epxoy coating finishes myself. I'd heat strip the varnish till you get to something solid and smooth, either wood or epoxy and go from there.