Naive question

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Mungo
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Naive question

Post by Mungo »

Can anyone help me with identifying boat bits please? I'm not a person who sails so ....

In the pics below what are the long T shaped rails used for ? What goes on the rail ? They are more sternward (?) than the jib sheet cheek plates, behind a cleat, they are made from tufnol ? They are well mounted, carriage bolt every 3-4 inches. I have a lot of bits but nothing that seems to fit the rail. Sorry i have no clear pics what i am trying to show. Thanks for any help

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt21 ... G_3149.jpg

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt21 ... G_3147.jpg

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt21 ... G_3150.jpg
JimC
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Re: Naive question

Post by JimC »

I imagine they were probably used for an adjustable spinnaker sheet lead.
Mungo
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Re: Naive question

Post by Mungo »

Thanks

Is there some bit that fits on the rail? This is probably really stupid but why have a rail? Why not a simple pulley or whatever you call a wheel like thing.... Is it important to move fore aft? The jib sheet is similar is it simple ergonomics, angles etc? Sorry to be his dumb, just wondering if I should reinstall them.

I am about to go on a pieces search so anything appreciated.

Thanks again
Michael Brigg
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Re: Naive question

Post by Michael Brigg »

Hi Mungo.

Almost certainly adjustable spinnaker leads. These are called the Sheet (attached to the Clew, or "leeward" side of the spinnaker foot, and the "Guy" attached to the Windward side. The Guy is also held by the Spinnaker pole. When you Gybe the Spinnaker, the Guy becomes the Sheet, and the Sheet becomes the Guy.

The position of the Guy is relatively fixed by the Spinnaker Pole, itself fixed in position by the triad of Uphaul, Downhaul and Guy, all of which are adjusted and fixed to suit the direction of sailing. The pole should as a rule lie at right angles to the direction of the wind.

The Sheet (and Clew) however is free to move according to wind strength and the point of sailing and the sheeting angle and tension, and so it needs to be constantly adjusted to optimise performance.

If the Shape of the Spinnaker is altered (say by raising or lowering the outer end of the Pole,) than the Sheeting point on your track can be altered also to optimise the position of the clew. (Ideally adjusted so that the combination of Sheet angle and tension makes the spinnaker shape optimal whilst also keeping the clew at the same height as the tack (outer end of the pole.)

As a rule in stronger wind the spinnaker must be made "Flatter," or it becomes like an uncontrollable horse on a loose rein, and this can be achieved by moving the Sheeting position forward, as well as lowering the outer end of the pole and tighter sheeting.

It's as easy as riding that Unicycle! :? :) As for the horse...
Michael Brigg
Michael Brigg
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Re: Naive question

Post by Michael Brigg »

Mungo wrote:Thanks

Is there some bit that fits on the rail? This is probably really stupid but why have a rail? Why not a simple pulley or whatever you call a wheel like thing.... Is it important to move fore aft? The jib sheet is similar is it simple ergonomics, angles etc? Sorry to be his dumb, just wondering if I should reinstall them.

I am about to go on a pieces search so anything appreciated.

Thanks again
Something like this?

http://www.apsltd.com/c-1255-ronstan-t- ... stems.aspx

Or the Dinghy sized equivalent. Attach a small pulley block to this...Image


Your spinnaker sheets run through this fairlead, (adjustable) and back to a turning block at the back of the boat on each side. In many dinghies this would be a continuous line from one clew via the fairlead, block, long bit of slack, through the other block fairlead and back to the other spinnaker clew. Outside of everything (ie Shrouds.)

It will also need a means of dedicated "quick release jammer" on each side.
Michael Brigg
Mungo
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Location: Canada

Re: Naive question

Post by Mungo »

Ok..... .?? That's a lot of adjustable things... I hear the beer store calling me.

Maybe I'll pm you and spare everyone else... I'm feeling decidedly intimidated by string. No wonder the colonies embraced canoes (the paddling type)

Any simple websites on how a boat works? I have really dumb questions (if there is a block why have a fairlead, orientation seems wrong???)
roger
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Re: Naive question

Post by roger »

Mungo,

For a start just get the mainsail and Jib sorted. Spinakers are complicated,especially for those who have never sailed and the chances are you wont use one for some time.

Just get the boat up and running and when you get a chance have a look at a few Symmetric spinnaker boats to get a feel for how to set it up. You don't want to drill holes in your lovely new decks only to find they are in the wrong place.
Personally I don't see the need for moving spinnaker fairleads one a fair way aft on both side should be enough.

Get her up and running and get her out to sail. Then mess about with the spinnaker.
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Rupert
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Re: Naive question

Post by Rupert »

I'm with Roger on this - just ignore them!

As for the sailing part of things, I'd find an experienced sailor or 2 and get them in the boat, telling you what to do, so you can enjoy your first sails with no sense of responsibility and panic. Then bit by bit start having a go at doing things. There is no hurry, after all.
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Ed
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Re: Naive question

Post by Ed »

Genoa tracks.

The Jollyboat had 3 possible foresails.

A standard jib of 52 sq ft, which sheets to the middle of the normal jib track. A storm-jib with 6in or so less in the foot at a foot or so less in the luff, but can't remember the exact size......and a full genoa (to be acurate the 52sqm is a genoa too, but not normally considered as such) of 72sq foot. this sheets back to beyond the back of the normal jib track and either goes to a track (as yours does) or simply to a fairlead or fairlead and block.

The spinnaker goes to the roller fairlead (most probably chrome) which is further still back and then right forwards to the tufnol cleats on the thwart, which you will see are pointing the right way for that.

My advice would follow that of my esteemed colleagues. Remove the genoa tracks, fill the holes and ignore.

We sail differently these days, and the genoa is neither an effective sail to race with, nor an easy one to use. It is good for offwind long reaches, but that is it. Very hard to use upwind or racing, or on small courses.....and always hard work.

As a child I would be made to scramble on the foredeck and replace the standard jib for long reaches back home at the end of the day in a falling wind with the wind behind us, but that was it.

So, my recommendation would be really not to bother and just use the normal 52sqft sail.

But then if you were starting again, I would recommend putting in a taller mast, lifting the jib halyard point by 6-12 inches and making a new 52sqft jib with a 12in longer luff that would then sheet inside the shrouds, which again would allow it to be cut with some shape in it. this is pretty much what all modern boats do and certainly what the fast Ozzie Jollyboats do. It would be much easier to use, more effective and faster.

The Spinnaker is another question and for now I would advise following the advice already given and just ignore it until you spent a year sailing the Jollyboat and think about whether you want to go the route of trying out an enormous original sized balloon kite for downwind work only, or trying to fit a smaller flatter kite for possible reaching. When you get to that stage....lets talk, as I have lots of thoughts on this!!

cheers

eib
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