Int Moth K3222 Project

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Nessa
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: East Angular

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by Nessa » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:01 am

For those who have asked about the scow moth, the owner has no intention of selling! If he had, I would have been straight in there!
Yellow Peril
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
Manky old Wayfarer
Stealth
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:30 am

Thanks for your suggestions with the lettering Jim, I have found the font available plus a few others that might work too. I will drop you an email .

Still a while off deciding on colour, but the prep work has to be done anyway.

A quick reminder of how it was.
S3paintbefore.jpg
Paintwork before
Red may well be a fast colour but it would have to make up for a lot of turbulence from rough edges! Although all the paint was stripped and some of the fibreglass tape removed to repair joints, there were a few underlying problems. Original panel joins and then subsequent replacement bottom panels had left some lumps and bumps in the general shape.
From bow to daggerboard case the keel line was a rough tape over the hog(!) and edges of the panels. By hog i mean a strip of 1"wide spruce with the corners planed off, quite substantial for a moth but not pretty. I thought it would look better with a capping piece over the panel edges, so I glued on some strips of ply which could be planed and shaped to correct some of the hollows and create a fairer keel line. Re-taping over the joint using epoxy and some microballoon filler, the tape can be blended in to the hull shape for a smooth finish.
S_20140322_125227.jpg
Filling and fairing
Epoxy filler and a few small pieces of glass tissue were used to correct hollows around the panel joints. Having a strap behind the butt joints had prevented the ply from bending there to follow the natural lines. I just thought it looked wrong to leave it flat, so I hope it will be worth the effort when the paint goes on. Lots of long board sanding to get the right shape, then epoxy coated all over.
Although the repairs and any major filling has been done with epoxy and microballoons, the long curing time, particularly in this cold weather, has led to me using a car bodyshop filler for the final stopping of minor dinks. My friends in the bodyshop recommended a 2 part 3M product which is much finer than the average car filler and not water absorbent. It has been much easier to build up the surface and sand out than epoxy.
S_20140322_125551.jpg
lumps and bumps
Altogether, there looks to be a lot of filler used but it really only amounts to about a cupful, and most of that ended up as a layer of dust over everything in the garage :!:

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Mon May 12, 2014 2:35 pm

The filling, sanding and primering has still been going on inbetween glueing sessions for the inwales, rubbing beads and what could be loosely called an upper deck. The shape and style of these side decks is mostly a more durable copy of the inwales that were just about still attached to the hull when i got it. The original pieces only extended a little fore and aft of the footwell and had the canvas trampolines wrapped over them and fastened underneath. That fixing had the effect of rolling the inwales upwards from the flimsy side panels and broken the glue joints.
I liked the shape of the inwales, so decided to remake them into a longer, laminated 2" wide deck that would support the side panels better between the new wing bar positions that have been worked out after much measuring and guesswork. A welcome donation of some old Magnum wings with rounded corner tubes has helped define the positions and angles required. With the help of PTOStu (fellow mothie and ace aluminium welder )I am hoping to weld these tubes into a set of wing bars and rig frame to carry the mast and shrouds, spreading the rig stresses more effectively to minimise the loads on the hull.
Attachments
s_165130.jpg
Glueing the 2" wide upper decks
s_181018.jpg
Upper decks, inwales, rubbing beads and rear corner supports in place
s_181455.jpg
Position of front wing bar. This tube will join to a short stump carrying the mast step.

Oupadupa
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:30 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by Oupadupa » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:18 am

Wonderful renovation , Lyndon.

I'm very glad you turned up to take this off my hands and prevent any further damage being done by me, because the boat is clearly worth the the time and effort you are spending on it.

It's a treat to read about your knowledgeable and sympathetic restoration.

Can't wait to see what it finally looks like.


Cheers

Roger

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:04 am

Roger, Thanks for your kind words of encouragement, I'm pleased you are following the slow but steady progress. Dollywaggon is looking a little more glamorous now :)

Many delays due to sailing weekends and work but at least I have enough varnish on the decks to be able to start re-fitting. Had a nice sunny day to wheel it outside and have a good look and a chance to set up the mast position which will help with the wing bar design.
Paintwork on the hull is still at primer stage, waiting for a convenient slot at my friend's spray shop. Of course, paying work has to come first :(
Attachments
S_decks finished.jpg
Out in the sun with some other classics
S_mast position.jpg
very temporary shrouds tied to trolley!

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:47 am

The original Tratman & Lowther sail has the same luff length as later moth sails, but the leech is about 12" longer. This means the mast will need to be more upright than I am used to on the magnums. It would be useful though to have enough adjustment to swap sails and masts for different conditions, if only to preserve the vintage equipment when damage is likely. My poor Magnum mast has withstood plenty of abuse but I wouldn't like to subject the Sprite's needlespar to a Roadford nose dive! Dolly's mast already has more holes than a swiss cheese in the lower section and has a distinct bend around the two boom positions. I think it might have to be straightened, then sleeved inside to prevent further bending.

For a basic mast position I set the bottom of the sail parallel to the deck for now, which gave me a measurement of 19'5" from head of sail to top of transom. No idea if thats correct, it just looks about right.
Attachments
S_mast rake.jpg
setting mast rake
(5.86 KiB) Not downloaded yet

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:53 pm

a preview of the rig frame Stuart and I are building....
We started with a steeper angle on the front wing bar but when tacked together it didn't look right, so a bit of adjustment and sighting up with the rear bars resulted in this design. It would have been neatly welded but the gas ran out! However, now the angles are set we are able to cut the side tubes and modify the rounded corner tubes to suit.
Attachments
rigframe1.jpg
rig frame

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:30 pm

Well, a new bottle of Argon gas and we had a further session on the rig frame and wings this weekend. Was going really well until I slid one carefully ground down tube onto the rear mounting stub and it refused to come off again - ever!
You would think that Ali tubes would be made to fit neatly inside the next size up but no, of course they don't. We had to sand about 0.5mm off the outside then grind out the inside of the larger tube to get it in, making sure both tubes were perfectly round as well. Repeat the process for every joint and it adds up to a lot of time and effort One of the rear bars and the neatly welded rear mounting ended up scrap after trying every trick we could think of to get them apart. Tweaking the corner bends was fun too without a bending machine. A big vice and strong bench, 4ft of tube and leaning on the far end will alter the bend slightly. Again carefully, to avoid distorting the tube.
Now we have to remake the rear mounting and join up the port side again.
Attachments
wing bars.jpg
One wing!

JimC
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Surrey
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Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by JimC » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:29 pm

bornagainmothie wrote:... and it refused to come off again - ever!
Probably be as well to make up all the joints with the horrible yellow stuff too so there's something to discourage corrosion... Obviously in theory you won't get anything electrochemical going on in alu to alu joints but...

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:21 pm

It didn't have much chance to corrode, clean tubes slid together for about a minute then stuck solidly together. Obviously needed a nats more clearance :oops:

Good point though Jim, what is the yellow stuff called? I know its an isolator of some kind, usually under stainless fittings. Would it help as a lubricant as we hope to make the rear joints detachable.
I often just use PU sealant to isolate, but very rarely would it get tested on salt water as that's at least 100 miles away from here!

Michael Brigg
Posts: 1662
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:55 pm

That would be Zinc Chromate.

AKA Duralac.

http://www.llewellyn-ryland.co.uk/downloads/duralac.pdf
Michael Brigg

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:08 pm

Ah, yes thats the stuff. ....and its made in Brum, even further away from the sea :)

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:29 am

Plenty of action in the paint shop over the last few weeks. Spent lots more time priming filling sanding, then guide coats and repeat. My painter won't put the shiny stuff on until its perfect
Attachments
S_guide coat.jpg
interesting effect, but it was all sanded off again to reveal any blemishes.
S_base coats.jpg
base coats being applied

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by bornagainmothie » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:39 pm

In the rush to finish the boat I never got much further with the story.

It really is about time I caught up for those of you that didn't see it last season.

The paint job..... For a 70s boat I wanted a 70s look and something special after all that work in the restoration and paint prep. Thinking of the era of Glam Rock we decided to try a period metal flake effect. Many 70s custom cars and bikes used the process which adds a coloured and glittery flake into the clear lacquer which provides the glossy finish over the top of a matt basecoat. This is quite different to a modern metallic or pearlescent finish which has the effect built in to the base coats.
The 70s process has a bit of a drawback though, the big flakes that create the sparkle need to be covered with enough clear lacquer to bury the lumps and bumps. Paul the Painter just kept on spraying until he was happy the flake was covered. It took ELEVEN coats, but wow what a shine!
Attachments
S_metalflakemoth3.jpg
Metalflaked Moth

davidh
Posts: 3162
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Int Moth K3222 Project

Post by davidh » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:07 pm

This boat is stunning!

I did have loads of pictures but dumped them, along with most of the others from the day (lets not go there!).

But this one survived!

D
Attachments
Lyndon Moth.jpg
David H

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