Enterprise help needed

[gavin100]

Hi all, I have just joined the forum and I have to say how impressed I am with the help and knowledge here.

I am very new to sailing and have been given a wooden enterprise. It doesn't appear to be to bad but does need some of the hull floor replacing (from the transom to the keel centre box). Is it possible if anyone to run through how to undertake this work.

Thank you in advance and I'm sorry if I got any of the tech terms wrong.

Gavin

[kfz]

Gavin, Hi. Some pictures are always useful in assesing the extent of the damage.

Intorduce yourself say hello. Friendly bunch round here.

Kev

[bornagainmothie]

Hi Gavin, welcome to the forum and world of classic boats. You have a bit of work ahead before getting afloat in your Ent but most things are fixable given patience and a bit of plywood and glue!

How old is the boat? Its number should be carved into the Hog near the Transom. That will give us a clue to the construction used re glues etc and how to repair. If you can upload some photos that would help too.
Are you repairing damage holes or rot? Typical problem in that area would be sitting on a dinghy park with water inside which could rot the hog and keel in the centre as well as the ply.

To replace the bottom panel you would need to remove the keel on the outside to expose the edges of the ply fastened to the hog, then possibly the rubbing strakes fitted to the outside floor/chine joint depending how far forward the repair has to go.

Lyndon

[gavin100]

Thank you for your help. I will upload some photos on Monday, what is the best way to upload the photos? Sorry for asking what I'm sure is basic questions.

[bornagainmothie]

There is a guide in the announcements section:
viewforum.php?f=3

[gavin100]

Sorry for the delay, but please see the link for some photos. Any advice is more than welcome. p.s I cant any info on the hog about the dinghy

http://www.flickr.com/photos/102860538@N08/

[kfz]

Right the floor is one thing, but looking at the first picture with the rot under the aft of the centreboard case that case is gonna leak like mad.


Ent Dinghy by gaving100, on Flickr

Proper job is to take the case out repair the rot and re seat it on epoxy. Fairly involved job.

The next question you need to ask yourself is how good a job do you want to do. At this point it might be easier and cheaper to strip the boat and buy another hull with a good case and floor.

Kev

[Rupert]

If the case sits flush on the hog, rather than going down inside it, then removing the case might be the easiest option for a long term fix. The alternative is to dig out the worst of the soft stuff, use liberal amounts of wood hardener, then fill with epoxy. Could last you years doing it that way, but could also leak 1st time out and then just get worse.

[paulmidd]

Gavin,
I've just about finished restoring an old Ent myself. My view, is that you've really got to want to restore a boat for it to be worth it. Kev's advice is right - about weighing up your options. My Ent cost me ~£200 on fleabay but god knows how many hundred I've subsequently spent on it and taken me ~2 years to complete(!) in between everything else. That said, I've enjoyed doing it and am really pleased with the result.

From the photos it appears you have a reasonably serious job ahead, but there is no reason why you could not repair it during the winter if you have a heated building to do it in and time on your hands. The timber/epoxy to repair the floor panels will be ~£200. Bear in mind that plenty of Ent's sell for a few hundred quid, so for the cost of the repairs you can go out and get a boat in better nick and use this one as a donor. On a purely economic basis, repairing boats like this is not worth it. Have a search on fleabay for Ents to gain an idea of the secondhand market.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic

I have a whole pile of downloads, pdfs and files of Ent articles and pictures shamelessly pilfered from all corners of the web (including repairs, methods, suppliers, rigging, tuning, etc.). You are more than welcome to a copy of them all. PM me with your name and address and I'll put a USB stick in the post to you. I have tried emailing stuff to people in the past but some of the files are large and I don't think I was successful, so snail mail is best.
All the best
Paul

[bornagainmothie]

It is looking like a major job i'm afraid. It has all the signs of typical rot in the floor and parts of the hog and centreboard case. The biggest clue is the fibreglass tape that has been used over the centreboard case rails to stem the leak! Dark patches under lifting varnish also suggest the case sides are soggy because the glass tape only stops water getting in the boat, it carries on soaking in behind.
I would say it needs a new centreboard case before attempting to change the bottom panels, but you have to decide overall if its worth doing. Plenty of reasons to give up on it and it won't make economic sense but if you feel capable then go ahead, you're in good company here!

Nothing to lose by stripping the paint from the keel area underneath and having a good poke around. Take the centreboard out and check all the slot and inside the case for soft patches. Try and expose the screw heads holding the case in. (screwed through the bottom case rail down into the hog every couple of inches along both sides) Sometimes they can be undone and the case comes out easily as it was only sat on mastic not glue.

Incidentally, the side chocks on the trailer will have caused a lot of the floor damage over the years. Bearing the weight in the centre of the panel causes it to flex and open up the joints letting water in. A full width cradle is far better and will protect your newly restored Ent

[gavin100]

Hi guys, thanks for your posts. I have stripped out the centre case and the one bit of good news is that the hog actually looks ok and pretty solid, so as mad as it seems I'm going to have a go at some sort of restoration, hopefully a good one haha.

Can anyone point me in the direction of how the flooring panels are fixed to both the hog and sides please.

Thanks

Gavin

[kfz]

Hi guys, thanks for your posts. I have stripped out the centre case and the one bit of good news is that the hog actually looks ok and pretty solid, so as mad as it seems I'm going to have a go at some sort of restoration, hopefully a good one haha.

Can anyone point me in the direction of how the flooring panels are fixed to both the hog and sides please.

Thanks

Gavin

Well done mate, your gonna get a lot out of it. The important thing now is to do a good job dont cut corners and go the distance, stick with it.

Kev

[roger]

Hi Gavin,

I am pretty sure the floor panels are glued and srewed or pinned to the frame. If you slide a knife into the join between floor and side panel from the outside if the glue is old you may find the join splits along the seam. You will probably need to strip the paint off first to see what you are doing.

[bornagainmothie]

That was quick work to get the case out, no wonder it leaked if it came out that easily!
Good news that the hog is ok, its not impossible to repair but a lot easier if you don't have to.
What state is the case in? Repair or replace? A good idea at this stage to make some patterns, especially of the curve to fit back to hog. I would be tempted to brace the hull in a few places to make sure it holds shape ok.
To replace the bottom panels you will need to remove the keel which covers the bottom to hog joints on the outside. You can see the joint if you remove the paint from the lower part of the transom. Bottom to Chine joint will be visible at transom too. Keel will be screwed at intervals from the outside, so another paint stripping and digging exercise after the metal strips have been removed of course. If as lucky as the case, the glue won't be holding much and it can be released in one piece.
By all means strip the paint, find the screws, and investigate if there's any more rot in the frames etc, but don't take too much apart until the case is back in to hold the shape.
Good luck with the project, we look forward to seeing another Enterprise saved and back on the water.

Lyndon

[gavin100]

Thanks guys for your help.

Im going to turn the dinghy upside down this weekend, any ideas on the best way to store it while upside down, e.g. on wooden blocks, used tyres or other methods? are there any weak points to be aware of?

Thanks again

Gavin