I14 K869 Agamemnon

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Nessa
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I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Nessa » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:52 am

If anyone is interested this lovely boat is now being restored by Chris Somner down in Poole. He is sometimes posting pics on his Facebook page 'Chris Somner Dinghy Services'. I wil try to post a link when not on my iPad.

I did want to do the work myself, but realised I didn't have the skills, plus I suffer from recurrent tennis elbow/RSI when I do to much sanding etc, so thought I would put it in expert hands.

Really looking forward to seeing the finished article!
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Nessa » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:08 pm

Big thanks to forum member Corilolis who apparently used to own this boat and who has supplied some interesting and useful information on previous restorations and past life! Chris says the hull is now finished and ready for coating, he is moulding a new trolley cradle and then will be turning the boat over to start on the interior before starting a mammoth coating process.

Unfortunately he/she wont be ready for Bosham, but better to do it properly! I will transfer some pics across soon.
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Nessa » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:38 pm

The bad news ist hat the centreboard that came with the boat probably isn't original - it is ugly and doesn't fit. This means we are having to have a new one made. I am now worried about the rudder!

The good news is that the boat just needs the cradle making making and a few more coats of varnish then she/he will be ready for fitting out. The week after next we will be taking down the kestrel mast so Chris can help us make it fit, plus a load of fittings which we will put on ourselves in his workshop.

If anyone has any cockpit photos that might help with working out where things work best I would be pleased to see them. All advice much appreciated, don't want to get this wrong.

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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by chris » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:52 pm

My only thought is from my limited experience with Blue Peter no 483 is that where the shrouds were originally fitted from the evidence isn't very good. Mine were on the gunwales and I know the U Fox boats usually had them more inboard. I expect this depends a bit on where the mast is fore/aft ( mine is 4' from the bow. The problem with mine the jib sheeting. If you have the sheets inside the shrouds you can point but for any other point of sail the jib/genoa is hopeless. Sheet outside the shrouds and everything is great except you can't point at all. so I'm contemplating moving the shroud plates.

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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Ed » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:47 pm

Could a barber-hauler work? Can't quite imagine the angles required...

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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Rupert » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:39 am

You need a dangly pole, to take the corner of the jib out on the reach. It will still rub on the shroud, but at least it will set. Wouldn't work with too big a genoa, though, as the angles would mean the stick would have to come too far aft, I think.
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by chris » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:42 am

The problem is that the clew of the genoa is about a foot behind the shroud so would put a right angled fold in the sail. It would only work on a jib that had a shorter foot but I'm not sure how the gain vs lose equation would work out. If I moved the shroud plates intowards the centreline more and put them on the edge of the tanks this would also increase the pressure on the wooden mast. Something of a catch 22!

Just seen your post Rupert,
If the jib sheet is inside the shroud for pointing a pole might well help But at some point it would all have to get round the far side of the shrounds.

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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Obscured by clouds » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:22 pm

way back in the mists of time I seem to recall a similar problem on an old boat my dad had. His solution. two sets of sheets, one inside the shrouds, and the other outside. the outer [reaching sheets?] were led further aft and could be cleated seperately.

Iirc it worked ok as long as you remembered you had two sheets each side.
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Nessa » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:34 pm

Unfortunately the sails original to the boat are not that good, nor is the mast. At the moment I'm planning on using a kestrel rig as I have a brand new mast and Genoa, and will get a new main made to measure. The original Genoa is massive, probably not far off the size of a topper sail, and to my mind too powerful for the boat now, given its age. I will obviously keep all the original kit to be brought out on special light wind occasions.

I want above all yo make the boat manageable so we can sail it across most wind conditions. It's not yet ready to be a museum piece.

I think some sort of barber hauler system is a must, I'm quite keen on the basic block on string system we had on the 470. I also need to think about a main sheet traveller system. I have no idea what it would have had, no fittings for this were supplied with it.

Chris Somner has offered to let me fit out in his workshop, but maybe I should wait so we could have a fitting out party some time next year? I have the parts, just don't know where to put them!
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by JimC » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:49 pm

Nessa wrote:Unfortunately the sails original to the boat are not that good, nor is the mast.
A 12 rig looks quite nice on an old 14...

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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Hotspur » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:17 am

Looks surprisingly good in fact. What 14 is that?
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Michael Brigg » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:44 pm

I think this is K773 "Snow Maiden.") A "Yeti" design. I Recall the boat features a fair bit in a discussion on the forum about the Yeti design with some interestin revalation of how the hull was made partly from ply, and partly from cold moulded construction.

Look up "Yeti" or "Snow Maiden in the search facility, it is all there.

Very nicely restored , I think she came up on ebay in quite a sorry state.
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Hotspur » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:21 pm

Sorry to hijack the thread, but as it's something of a dream to own a classic 14 but somewhat impractical in terms of sailing one, an alternative 12 rig is an interesting option.
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by Ed » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:17 pm

To make a 14 more easily handled.....the key think I reckon is just to replace the genoa with a smaller jib. That cuts canvas, makes it easier to tack and allows you to get around the sheeting issue by allowing them to be inside the stays.

Also do check what sail-sizes were actually being used at the time the boat was first made. Seems to me lots of boats were originally sailed with less than full-sized canvas, but were then given larger and larger sails as rules allowed them.

Certainly it is my experience that when you get an old 14, the original sails are always substantially smaller than the newer set. Especially of course if the first set were cotton.

I might be wrong.....but I think you get the long genoas because the area behind the mast isn't counted in the measurements on 14s?

For the kind of sailing we do, I really rather think that I would prefer a smaller jib sheeted inside the stays, which could then be properly shaped, rather than the old genoas which by necessity were cut pretty much flat, and as we said, much easier to handle.

cheers

eib
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Re: I14 K869 Agamemnon

Post by JimC » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:46 pm

Ed wrote:I might be wrong.....but I think you get the long genoas because the area behind the mast isn't counted in the measurements on 14s?
Certainly not the case now of course. Trouble is the 14 rules have changed so often over the years. I remember thinking in the 70s and 80s their rules effectively mandated what seemed to me to be a damn silly rig, but can't remember how or why.

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