Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

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Stephen Hawkins
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Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

So, finally, I have bit the bullet and remove the gunnels and the foredeck of my beloved Sparkle. The gunnels put up a terrific fight it has to be said, and as a result of their removal, I have a little collateral damage to repair.

But before I ring Robbins up I need some advice on what I need to order for both the deck and the gunnels. I am looking for a rich brown for-deck, not a pink/yellow affair. So what type of ply should I order?

Also the gunnels were made up of two strips, one originally light colour (inboard) and I think the outboard strip was mahogany. Any ideas what wood I should be using on the inboard strip.

I have some tidying up to do for a week or so, pulling all the nails out and cleaning up and repairing the faces of the wood I will be gluing to and a couple of loose frames. It will be a traditional deck replacement, using pins to nail the deck in place, with some of that foamy glue. But I will be screwing and plugging the gunnel - at least the outer strip. I will also be using G4 as a base covering, as I like its ease of use. I will varnish it later

Advice will be appreciated.

Cheers

Steve Hawkins
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Obscured by clouds »

beware of the foamy glue!

I used it to glue down the decks on sibrwd and no matter how well I weighed, clamped and nailed the deck down, the foaming properties still managed to push it up in one or two places.

if you do useit you need to be very sparing.

the clean up afterwards was no fun either.
Tony



MR 2404 Julia Dream
N18 276 Sibrwd [ongoing project]
Hirondelle catamaran Kalipse
[down to 3!]
Rupert
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Rupert »

Why nails and Balcotan, rather than no nails and epoxy? Nails are what causes most decks to need replacing in the 1st place.

Mind, Saskia's decks were done 10 or so years ago with Balcotan, lots of clamps and weights (and strips of wood between the clamps) and no nails, and haven't fallen off yet...
Rupert
Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

As far as the foamy glue is concerned, I used it on the only other re-deck I did - a Cadet, and it was fine. I think OBC has hit the nail on the head - use it sparingly.

I have a limited number of clamps. The deck I pulled off was nailed and lasted 47 years. The deck is only coming off as the top layer of ply was delaminating and splitting. Nails played no part in it. I am never going to get a no-nails deck to work in my working environment. Why fight it. Its how the boat was originally made.

The only issue with nails I have are the black stains for the copper nails used to fix the gunnels. So I will screw the new gunnel on. And use plugs to cover them up.

Back to the wood ?
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
JimC
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by JimC »

Stephen Hawkins wrote: I am never going to get a no-nails deck to work in my working environment
Staples.
Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

Staples - I will give it some thought

Back to my original question:

Wood for the gunnels? Light colour to offset the mahogany?

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
Obscured by clouds
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Obscured by clouds »

ash, sycamore/maple, elm.

softwood - douglas fir.

there should be a lot of ash around, easily worked and bent. It would be my choice. seal it well with G4. Otherwise maple - but difficult to find in long lengths?
Tony



MR 2404 Julia Dream
N18 276 Sibrwd [ongoing project]
Hirondelle catamaran Kalipse
[down to 3!]
Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

Which is the one that goes black, if you are not careful?

I vaguely recall a discussion some time ago about this very subject, but am not sure what to search for.

Cheers

Steve Hawkins
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
roger
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by roger »

A quick search for Ash seems to indicate its not ideal apart from tillers.
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Obscured by clouds »

Ok,since there is a downer on ash can someone please tell me why ash is the prefered option for canadian canoe gunnels, ribs for numerous clinker built boats [early N12 and MR come to mind] tillers, oars and in fact anywhere that requires long straight lengths that have good tension qualities and excellent strength/weight.

The fact that there seem to be concerns - unfounded in my opinion - because ' it might turn black ' seems totally daft, considering that it is intended [in this case] to put it next to plywood which if anything is going to quickly degrade if not sealed and looked after.

We have been spoilt over the years with 'mahogany' - and lets face it - much of what is sold as 'mahogany' is nothing of the kind.

Use ash, seal it well, varnish it well and look after it.
Tony



MR 2404 Julia Dream
N18 276 Sibrwd [ongoing project]
Hirondelle catamaran Kalipse
[down to 3!]
alan williams
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by alan williams »

Hi Guys
All the deluxe Hornets used to have sapele veneered decks with ash trim to seal the end grain. It was also used in the construction of laminated gunnels to give a really flash effect. I used hickory on one of my boats and this was brilliant very strong and looked awesome to do the same jobs.
Cheers Al
Michael Brigg
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Michael Brigg »

Much the same discussion about ash in Chris' thread on Int 14 Blue Peter, on that occasion discussing its properties as a substitute for Rock Elm.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5180

The issue relates to the percieved resistance to Rot. Said to be worse if used in Fresh Water, but OK on the sea.

I would envisage a well kept boat, sailed dry should not have much of a problem, but therein always lies the rub...

The website here is I find rather informative on variety of different woods.

http://www.covboat.co.uk/sustainability.htm

I like the idea of Hickory. Usually used for Axe handles, so has good impact resistance I would think!

(And at the end of life, also good on BarBQ for smoking the meat :lol: )
Michael Brigg
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PeterV
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by PeterV »

I've used 2 different Robins ply woods on Django. For the replacement centreboard case I used Elite Plus, it has a dark finish and it's a strong ply for structural jobs. For the foredeck though I wanted something lighter in weight and in colour to match more closely the light coloured wood used by Fairey so I chose Elite. It's very light in weight and colour and I've been very pleased with it in the 7 years it's been in place. So for colour you should use the Elite Plus, but it's probably a bit heavy and stronger than you need. There's another grade, Elite Super Plus which is sapele faced and would probably look very out of place.
PeterV
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Mikey
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by Mikey »

Spud Rowsell used sycamore as the light wood "sandwich" in the gunnels of his wood Merlins.

Mike Liggett.
alan williams
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Re: Sparkle, New Gunnels and Fordeck

Post by alan williams »

Hi Mike you can also make a pretty good long bow by splicing two pick axe handles together and then shaping and tillering it.
Cheers Al
Last edited by alan williams on Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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