Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

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dan214
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Location: Cardiff, Wales

Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by dan214 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:48 pm

Hey guys, I'm Dan, I'm the new owner of a 1967 Enterprise named Dawn Breeze :D I have messed around in boats my entire life but have no experience with sailing so looking forward to learning!

She's in pretty sound condition so far! I'm currently half way through the prep work of re-varnishing the deck and will soon start preparing the hull for some fresh paint!

I have some questions if you don't mind:
1. I'm thinking I might stain the deck before I varnish, I like the look of a darker finish, I know its not going to have the lovely grain but something similar to some black walnut. Any suggestions on a suitable stain?
2. Can someone walk me through the process of painting the hull please? I'll take the hull back to bare wood and then do I need to apply some sort of sealer? Do I need a primer before the undercoat and top coat? Can you recommend me a decent brand that's preferably not going to cost me a fortune :)

Thanks for any help, Dan.

ImageDSC_1116 by dan00001, on Flickr

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by jpa_wfsc » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:40 pm

Hello Dan and welcome!
Mos stains are oil based and are not compatible with polyurethane varnish (most dinghy gloss varnish is polyurethane). So check compare iolite carefully.

Paint prep depends mostly upon what state the existing paint is in. If it is sound, then sanding back to get a smooth key is a ifficient. If the paint has problems like peeling osmosis or flaking then sand back to Base coats and rebuild the finish with undercoats. If you want a yacht finish then many coats with sanding down using finer paper each time will be needed.

Learning to sail.. May I recommend that you find an RYA training centre at a sailing club neaten to you and get lessons from them. You will be guided to safe sailing and long term enjoyment of the best way to enjoy water!

Welcome to cvrda.
j./

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!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
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neil
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by neil » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:20 am

Dan

If you've not seen it you might want to have a look at Ed's varnishing guide on the Hints and Tips page - http://www.cvrda.org/wp-cvrda/hints-and-tips/ this covers the staining issue.
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Pat
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by Pat » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:13 am

Did you buy that boat from Mark near Trowbridge? Looks familiar. Where are you planning to sail?
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)

dan214
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Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by dan214 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:34 am

Thanks jpa_wfsc, will make sure they are compatible then before I go ahead with it!

Thanks Neil, That's a great read! and I didn't even realise there was a hints and tips page :)

Pat, yes I did and what a nice guy he is. I am based in Cardiff and there are two yacht clubs that I know of, there's Cardiff Yacht Club and there's Cardiff Bay Yacht Club. They are the main ones I think but there are also smaller clubs dotted around the place that I will have to check out! Most of them seem to have training for people who have never sailed before. I also have an uncle and a friend who used to be keen sailors :) I have a holiday home in Cardigan, West Wales where I also plan on sailing, This place is where my love of the sea and boats came from, spending so much time down there as a kid.
I'm not interested in racing at the moment, just cruising around having a good time and plan on doing a few sailing/camping trips in the future. I would love to attempt to sail from Cardigan to Cardiff or vice versa after I have a couple years of sailing experience under my belt :)

thanks for all the help, Dan.

chris
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by chris » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:03 pm

Using stain will not be easy to get a nice finish and is most likely to look blotchy on wood that has been varnished before. However well you strip it and prepare its absorption is likely to be patchy.

There are water stains available - even such traditional ones like Vandyke Chrystal's made from walnut husks - which will not react with whatever type of varnish goes on top. But I've never yet seen a really good result with stain.

Michael Brigg
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by Michael Brigg » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:46 pm

I agree with Chris here, especially as it is now almost impossible (other than illegally) to get hold of decent (methyl Chloride) stripper. Nothing else will penetrate the wood effectively enough to remove the first varnish layer (unless it was not well prepared in the first place. But from the picture the decks look in decent condition so this seems unlikely.

The only way to get old varnish off is with Stripper and a very sharp tool. (I recommend an oil stone for sharpening your blade, and this needs to be done every few minutes.)

If the old varnish is a synthetic/polyurethane, you will only get it off with aggressive (mechanical) sanding, as modern (non "carcinogenic") strippers are even less effective on that. Follow up with a light "shave" to remove scour marks, using your (straight ) blade stripper tool or be very industrious with progressively finer grades of paper.

If you what to totally remove the varnish, even where it has soaked into the wood, you may need to literally "shave" about 1/2 mm off the top veneer, often more, and this runs a real risk of going through to the middle layer, which never looks good.

A heat gun is a dead loss on Varnish because although it works well and quickly, it removes all of the lustre from the wood, and gives a horrible finish, unless you shave down to undamaged "new" wood. Not really a good option on ply as you don't have the thickness.

For the painted surfaces this is not an issue and with these a heat gun is your best friend.

Avoid in almost all situations, a rotary sander, unless you are an experienced body shop worker! (Unless you want a finish like a badly hoovered carpet!)
Michael Brigg

dan214
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Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by dan214 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:01 pm

Thanks guys, its starting to look like staining is not going to be a good option then :( I have used a heat gun to strip off the bulk of the varnish and took my time not to burn the wood in any way and it came off pretty easy :) I'm now half way through the process of sanding, gradually moving to finer grit sand papers and its coming up pretty nice. I will take some photos today and post them later.

I did find someone who has done what I would like to do and I think it looks pretty good, don't' you? I don't know the person and if I'm even aloud to post this on here as its not my work so sorry if I'm not but here is his pinterest page with photos of his work and below is a photo of his stained deck:

https://www.pinterest.com/Markyreeve/en ... storation/

Image

dan214
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by dan214 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:42 pm

So here she is last week after being sanded with 80 grit sand paper, what looks like marks on the right hand side are actually just where i have had a go at wiping the dust from sanding off. i have now done a load more sanding with 120 and 180 grit and will give the final sand with 240 grit sand paper.

I have decided to use for the hull, international yacht primer followed by pre-kote and finished off with toplac. can anybody please tell me the square meterage of the hull of an enterprise? or how many Litres they had to use for the number of coats they applied? Thanks for your help, Dan.

ImageDSC_1119 by dan00001, on Flickr

roger
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by roger » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:59 pm

As I remember when I used toplac for the Hornet (2ft longer but a bit narrower than an Ent,) 1 tin was us
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

dan214
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:09 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by dan214 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:26 pm

thanks roder, what size was the tin? i believe they do tins of 750ml, 1L, 2.5L?

roger
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by roger » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:33 pm

Just had a look in the shed to see if there is any left but cant find the tin, I am pretty sure it was the litre one. When I did the GP which is about the same size as the enterprise I think that was the one litre tin as well.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

dan214
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:09 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by dan214 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:43 pm

hi guys, i have progressed further, over the weekend i flipped her over and stripped all of the paint from the bottom of the hull and have started sanding. she is in pretty good condition no major damage :) there are a few repairs, repaired with filler, i have added some photos i just want to know what you guys think if i should just fill it again and paint over or if i should cut a square out and renew with ply? the 3" scraper is in the photos to give you an idea of the size of the repairs.
ImageDSC00030 by dan00001, on Flickr
ImageDSC00029 by dan00001, on Flickr
ImageDSC00027 by dan00001, on Flickr

In this last photo, as you can see i have started sanding on the sides and none on the top, it took a fair bit of sanding (by hand) to get to this stage and i am wondering if this is sanded enough to paint? or should i sand down to absolute bare wood?
ImageDSC00019 by dan00001, on Flickr

Thanks again for all your help so far, its very much appreciated!!

Rupert
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by Rupert » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:25 am

If smooth - ie, the paint not proud of the wood) it will be fine. However, what I've found is that any paint sticking out even a little shows up like a sore thumb once the paint starts going on.

Any reason you aren't using electricity to help with the sanding?
Rupert

alan williams
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Re: Hello, Newbie here with an Enterprise :)

Post by alan williams » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:21 am

Hi
I have found in the past that a cabinetmakers scrapper is the best tool for removing varnish and if kept sharp will reduce the amount of time spent rubbing down.
Cheers Al

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