Finn mast step

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azimuth
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Finn mast step

Post by azimuth » Sun May 10, 2015 10:42 pm

Hi All

Been trying to work out how to adjust the mast step on K60 - can't work if out, here's a pic
image.jpg
The bit that looks like you ought to turn it both feels solid like it won't move and the floor would stop it anyway.
I've tried loosening off the nuts that hold it at the cross piece the blocks are attached to - it still feels solid, I've even tried loosening one nut and pushing it through by trying to turn the the other nut - no joy!

I'm out of ideas, anything occur to anyone?

Many thanks
Keith
Keith.

Finn K60 'Sfinnx' Fairey
Zenith 74 'Azimuth' (rescued from the undergrowth 20yrs ago)
Zenith 61 'Bali Hai'... A family heirloom...

cweed
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by cweed » Mon May 11, 2015 10:12 am

Firstly: Does the T bar handle rotate enough to clear the floor?

Secondly: Are any of the nuts, on the threaded bar, locknuts, and need unwinding? It looks as if the threaded bar goes through a square block which presumably is also threaded. That may be seized.

The threaded bar needs to rotate in the body of the mast foot itself, There will be a nut or similar on the extreme right end of the bar which rotates with the threaded screw. That also may be corroded up...............

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PeterV
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by PeterV » Mon May 11, 2015 12:51 pm

As Cweed says. The t bar must clear the floor, presumambly it worked when installed so I'll assume it does. You have lock nuts against the fixed part so make sure they're slackened off and at the moving end the nuts should be fixed to the screw to push/pull the step. Add Plus Gas or wd40 to the screw at both the fixed bar and the part that rotates in the mast plate until it frees off. Expect this to take many applications if it's well seized.

Another option is to measure the mast rake. If it measures 6.86m from the top of the mast to the top of the transom then you don't need to move the mast step at all, if not get the screw unseized!
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash

alan williams
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by alan williams » Mon May 11, 2015 3:34 pm

Hi Keith
The mast foot was seized up on the Vanguard that brought. Spent a month spraying WD40 every time I was up at roadford that and Chris Mulholland tapping it with an engineers hammer got it moving again. Packed grease under the top plate has the thing working really well. Due to the Vanguard mast foot being ali electrolytic action had taken place hence the need to tap with a hammer to break the resultant corrosion "weld",.
Regards Alan
Ps see you at Clywedog

ent228
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by ent228 » Mon May 11, 2015 6:39 pm

You have the luxury of screws that will/may come out. I'm envious, my old Pearson one was glassed in and un moveable.

This looks odd. The T handle certainly looks wrong and will not rotate. Some one has been mixing metals in a corrosive environment .........again.........sigh. :(

Look on the bright side. get it out have fun cleaning it up.

I know it is out of class, but if I ever get another Finn I will put a universal joint on the end of the adjusting screw and join a long rod to it with a handle at the end, probably going to a bearing under the thwart. This will allow me to stop and change the mast rake and then sail on again. Just for fun.

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PeterV
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by PeterV » Mon May 11, 2015 6:51 pm

Another option is simply to take this one out and put a new one in. The classic finn site has details of mine, made from an acetal sheet and a staymaster turnbuckle.
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash

clibb
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by clibb » Mon May 11, 2015 7:42 pm

Keith. Thank you for posting the picture. When I answered you privately I had not seen the picture, this brings it all back. I never changed the position of the mast step, specifically because of the impossibility of turning the T-bar. I had intended to take out the whole assembly, and replace the T-bar with a fixed nut that could be easily turned with a spanner, but I never got round to doing it. Still think that may be the solution, but some work on easing off the slider may well be necessary.

Nick

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azimuth
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by azimuth » Mon May 11, 2015 11:23 pm

Hello All,

Many thanks for all the replies, sounds like it does need a bit of re-engineering in the long run. I thought I might have missed something about how it works but it sounds like the current set up looks adjustable but in fact isn't as the tbar would hit the floor even if it could be freed up. I like Nick's suggestion of replacing the t bar with a welded on nut so the floor is not in the way, might well be the way forward.

Peter, thanks for your rake measurement, I thought i needed to be around 676 but in fact I'm very close to the figure you give - maybe my figure is for modern carbon masts rather than needlespar?

I think what I might do is use the boat as is for the summer, give it regular doses of wd40 or dismantling oil then take a view on taking the step out and working on it as a winter job.

Cheers all

Keith
Keith.

Finn K60 'Sfinnx' Fairey
Zenith 74 'Azimuth' (rescued from the undergrowth 20yrs ago)
Zenith 61 'Bali Hai'... A family heirloom...

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PeterV
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by PeterV » Wed May 13, 2015 5:06 pm

Keith, sorry I was quoting the rake from memory but I've just checked the figure I use on Django and it is 6.76 so your mast is a bit too upright. I use about 6.84 on Django in stronger winds as it flattens the sail more, but most of the time I'm on 6.76
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash

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azimuth
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by azimuth » Wed May 13, 2015 10:50 pm

Thanks Peter! In that case sounds like I'd better get the wd40 out and put my thinking cap on!
Keith.

Finn K60 'Sfinnx' Fairey
Zenith 74 'Azimuth' (rescued from the undergrowth 20yrs ago)
Zenith 61 'Bali Hai'... A family heirloom...

JimC
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by JimC » Thu May 14, 2015 10:15 am

Might be nonsense of course, but it looks to me as f the mechanism is raised above the floor on wood packing. If so I wonder if someone has reduced the packing aft, maybe to compensate for increased mast rake, and that's why the T bar no longer turns. If so might a bit more packing fore and aft restore movement, if it could be done without reducing strength?

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by jpa_wfsc » Thu May 14, 2015 11:44 pm

you certainly do need to adjust it... if its windy set the mast more vertical so that when you sheet in upwind you get more mast bend. The fixed rake idea is really only to get the boat somewhere neat before you start tuning the rig to suit your weight / sail.
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'

British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'

!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.

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azimuth
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by azimuth » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:38 pm

Well the mast step is out of the boat and freed up fairly easily - vice, moles grips and dismantling lubricant!

Have chopped the ends off the t-bar and think it will turn now (offers up right), might need pliers or moles to help get a grip of what's left of it - unfortunately welding a nut on instead wasn't going to work as even this wouldn't clear the floor (when a corner was pointing down). Don't want to try packing it up as this is also the mast retainer!

Will screw it back in later in the week - it was held in by a mixture of self tappers and wood screws, I guess the latter will be ok going back into the holes they came out of like self tappers are? Might put a dab of sixaflex on the screws to be sure...

Thanks to all for thoughts and advice a few weeks back!

Cheers
Keith
Last edited by azimuth on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Keith.

Finn K60 'Sfinnx' Fairey
Zenith 74 'Azimuth' (rescued from the undergrowth 20yrs ago)
Zenith 61 'Bali Hai'... A family heirloom...

cweed
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by cweed » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:49 am

Hello.

I suggest using a piece of tube with a slot in one end to mate over the remaing pieces of bar, and at the other a hole in the tube to take a tommy bar. (bit like a water stopcock tool) In my experience, screw threads seize up when you're not looking, and a tube extension may make life easier..........

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azimuth
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Re: Finn mast step

Post by azimuth » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:32 am

That's an interesting thought Cweed, thanks, I like the idea of making a tool that's slots on to give the leverage needed to mak moving it easy... Hmm, will get it back in the boat and have a think.... Might well be something in my garage that could be used!
Keith.

Finn K60 'Sfinnx' Fairey
Zenith 74 'Azimuth' (rescued from the undergrowth 20yrs ago)
Zenith 61 'Bali Hai'... A family heirloom...

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