Tiller length?
Tiller length?
I have snapped my Tiller,
I do however need a longer tiller extension, the "Sprint" requires a firm hand when fast reaching, due to weather helm.
I had intended to just buy a longer Tiller extension, Rupert suggested one about 18" longer, but, now the Tiller itself has broken.
would I get better leverage with a longer Tiller ?
Keep the same Tiller length and get the longer Tiller extension ?
I do however need a longer tiller extension, the "Sprint" requires a firm hand when fast reaching, due to weather helm.
I had intended to just buy a longer Tiller extension, Rupert suggested one about 18" longer, but, now the Tiller itself has broken.
would I get better leverage with a longer Tiller ?
Keep the same Tiller length and get the longer Tiller extension ?
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- Posts: 222
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm
Re: Tiller length?
Yes, a longer tiller would give you more leverage, but should it be necessary? I think I would be looking at the whole rudder assembly for reasons why the steering is so heavy.
Any weather helm and your efforts to counteract it, (heaving the tiller towards you) will seriously slow the boat down as it is creating turbulence in the water.
The first question has to be "are you sailing the boat flat?" If the boat is allowed to heel in a gust the natural tendency is for the hull itself to steer upwind. Spill some wind, hold the boat flat and it should require very little steering correction to go straight. If it still steers up into wind then, maybe mast raked too far back or daggerboard needs to be angled backwards beneath the hull. (not sure how much adjustment you have) The idea being to get the centre of effort of the rig directly above the pivot point of the hull, then the boat steers straight. It works for windsurfers.
if the steering is generally heavy, is it possible to get the leading edge of the rudder blade more vertical? Is the blade riding up as speed increases? A sloppy pivot bolt, wear in the stock or blade at that point can allow some movement or a weak elastic downhaul not holding the blade down.
Length of tiller and extension will be a trade off between ideal length of extension when fully hiked out and combined length when sat in the boat leaning forwards in light airs. A longer tiller may get in the way in the cockpit when gybing, a longer extension can get caught in the mainsheet system, back of the buoyancy aid etc. Maybe experiment with some plastic conduit as an extension, which is cheap and easy to cut down until the ideal length is found.
Any weather helm and your efforts to counteract it, (heaving the tiller towards you) will seriously slow the boat down as it is creating turbulence in the water.
The first question has to be "are you sailing the boat flat?" If the boat is allowed to heel in a gust the natural tendency is for the hull itself to steer upwind. Spill some wind, hold the boat flat and it should require very little steering correction to go straight. If it still steers up into wind then, maybe mast raked too far back or daggerboard needs to be angled backwards beneath the hull. (not sure how much adjustment you have) The idea being to get the centre of effort of the rig directly above the pivot point of the hull, then the boat steers straight. It works for windsurfers.
if the steering is generally heavy, is it possible to get the leading edge of the rudder blade more vertical? Is the blade riding up as speed increases? A sloppy pivot bolt, wear in the stock or blade at that point can allow some movement or a weak elastic downhaul not holding the blade down.
Length of tiller and extension will be a trade off between ideal length of extension when fully hiked out and combined length when sat in the boat leaning forwards in light airs. A longer tiller may get in the way in the cockpit when gybing, a longer extension can get caught in the mainsheet system, back of the buoyancy aid etc. Maybe experiment with some plastic conduit as an extension, which is cheap and easy to cut down until the ideal length is found.
Re: Tiller length?
I've used very short tillers on some of my boats, I think it's reasonable to suggest that on a dinghy if you need a long tiller for leverage than something else is wrong which ought to be sorted.
Of course if the something else is a 1950s rudder design you wish to retain...
But otherwise I think you should be driven by ergonomics. Shorter the tiller the easier it will be to steer while hanging off the back corner of the boat downwind in breeze, but conversely the more awkward it will get when seated on the foredeck when light. There's also as alluded the effects of tiller extension length on mainsheet clearance.
Of course if the something else is a 1950s rudder design you wish to retain...
But otherwise I think you should be driven by ergonomics. Shorter the tiller the easier it will be to steer while hanging off the back corner of the boat downwind in breeze, but conversely the more awkward it will get when seated on the foredeck when light. There's also as alluded the effects of tiller extension length on mainsheet clearance.
Re: Tiller length?
Short tiller, long extension. Don't forget, when sitting on the wing, the extension still has to be pretty long anyway to be able to hang over the edge! The weather helm ona Minisails can be pretty severe, and the extra roach area with the battens doesn't help. However, with the set up you have, if you bung a powerful downhaul on the boat, you will be able to drag the fullness of the sail forwards again, which will help, Laser style.
Rupert
Re: Tiller length?
Got it,
I will beef up new Tiller, maintain original length,( probably designed to optimal length for Sprint anyway ).
I have a nice length of carbon fibre for tiller extension to experiment with.
I will beef up new Tiller, maintain original length,( probably designed to optimal length for Sprint anyway ).
I have a nice length of carbon fibre for tiller extension to experiment with.
- jpa_wfsc
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:52 pm
- Location: Oxford (Work) Coteswold Water Park (Sailing)
Re: Tiller length?
With a felxible rig like the finn, OK and probably minisail, weather helm when reaching can also be too much mainsail twist - so you tend to sheet in to much to stop the top of the sail from flogging. The longish boom means the bottom of the sail is oversheeted - causing centre of pressure to move back a lot. If you can get a stiffer / stronger kicking strap to stop the sail twisting it might help. As others have said, if you have a lot of weather help then something else is wrong...
j./
National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'
British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'
!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.
National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'
British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'
!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.
Re: Tiller length?
I have a 16to1 kicking strap, coupled with a stiff boom.
The weather helm only occurs when boat is heeled, you then have to be firm with tiller, until you have flattened boat, this only occurs in decent winds, not all the time.
The weather helm only occurs when boat is heeled, you then have to be firm with tiller, until you have flattened boat, this only occurs in decent winds, not all the time.
Re: Tiller length?
The kicker on at the weekend certainly wasn't quite right, as I think it was temporary, and bottomed out too early, so this would make a difference.
Rupert
Re: Tiller length?
Sorry......Minisprint, stiff, and 16:1 are 3 concepts I find hard to keep in my head at the same time.
eib
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
- jpa_wfsc
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:52 pm
- Location: Oxford (Work) Coteswold Water Park (Sailing)
Re: Tiller length?
16:1 Gin:Tonic is certainly stiff...
j./
National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'
British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'
!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.
National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'
British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'
!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.
Re: Tiller length?
Ed, Rob has put some interesting turned (if that is the correct term) aluminium brackets on the mast, which then takes much of the pressure off the somewhat feeble deck moulding. For some strange reason, half the foredeck is made of aluminium too! Large OD boom, too. So, the boat might not be particularly light, but I think it will take some strain! I have an 8:1 kicker on Minim, and I'm kinda worried every time I yank it on hard, whereas Rob's boat feels like it will take any amount of tension. Probably why the tiller broke - next weakest point!
Rupert
Re: Tiller length?
Correct Rupert, Kicker off Enterprise, had just enough travel to pull Boom below horizontal, but Mainsheet did rest.
Tiller is the worst designed item I have ever seen, their was a total of half a square inch of wood.
http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/aquab ... sort=3&o=4
Tiller is the worst designed item I have ever seen, their was a total of half a square inch of wood.
http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/aquab ... sort=3&o=4
Re: Tiller length?
The Aluminium foredeck and the aluminium cross shaped plate on bottom of Hull, serve two purposes, the deck gives a decent fixing for fittings, plus stiffens deck, spreading mast pot load, the plate on Hull, repaired hole caused by mast pot poking through, plus spreads mast pot load.